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Old March 6th, 2011, 04:08 PM   #6521
Suburbanist
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Nexis, let's wait final figures of US Census Bureau then we discuss about "the demise of auto in Northeastern US".
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Old March 6th, 2011, 04:22 PM   #6522
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Nexis, let's wait final figures of US Census Bureau then we discuss about "the demise of auto in Northeastern US".
They already came out....the Railway burbs also faired better during the recession.... If you look at the Railway or Transit connected towns and cities in my state they grew faster then the Auto-burbs...
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Old March 6th, 2011, 06:39 PM   #6523
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
As Chris wrote most Europeans fly on such distances, some drive (if they have a lot of stuff to move or on family holiday) and very few uses trains.
People traveling by train from London to Berlin are most likely to be train enthusiasts or American tourists using EuroRail passes.

Some people from America, especially pro public transit ones, have completely screwed view of Europe, like we are some sort of transit heaven they should aspire to. Guys, we have our own problems with rails, be a bit critical.
I travel distance about 1000 miles couple of times a year and I never use train. Never. I don't know many people doing it. Distance of about 500 miles is probably maximum for most people (with exception of some high speed lines). Especially international train journeys are unpopular. Train would be much more expensive and would take much more time. Why would anyone take it? Again London - Paris/Brussels is rather exception confirming that rule.
If America had a HSR system connecting all major cities within 500 miles of one another, well over 80 percent of the population would have access to it. America east of the Mississippi is as densely populated as Europe. Air travel in most cities is terrible and consists of people being packed into tiny sardine cans prone to delays.

You left out Madrid- Barcelona and Madrid-Valencia as more "exceptions" to the rule. Any more city pairings and the exceptions will become the rule!
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Old March 6th, 2011, 06:58 PM   #6524
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Alot of Ridership growth has to do with TOD projects , which fill in the open areas of the Downtowns...and areas surrounding stations. There are 2 large scale TOD projects UC , there expected to add 15-20,000 more riders to one station. So alot of the ridership big and small has come form TOD and NJ was the first state to have a policy...now every NE state has one....although not as good as NJ. .
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Old March 6th, 2011, 11:44 PM   #6525
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Doesn't Europe have plenty of low-coast airplanes? I don't really see the point of driving up to 1000 miles in you cars even with families.

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I saw an article fairly recently that said that fully 80% of all intercity trips in Europe are still by car.
Isn't that based on transportation mileage?
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Old March 7th, 2011, 12:19 AM   #6526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
As Chris wrote most Europeans fly on such distances, some drive (if they have a lot of stuff to move or on family holiday) and very few uses trains.
People traveling by train from London to Berlin are most likely to be train enthusiasts or American tourists using EuroRail passes.

Some people from America, especially pro public transit ones, have completely screwed view of Europe, like we are some sort of transit heaven they should aspire to. Guys, we have our own problems with rails, be a bit critical.
I travel distance about 1000 miles couple of times a year and I never use train. Never. I don't know many people doing it. Distance of about 500 miles is probably maximum for most people (with exception of some high speed lines). Especially international train journeys are unpopular. Train would be much more expensive and would take much more time. Why would anyone take it? Again London - Paris/Brussels is rather exception confirming that rule.
I'm glad a European finally spoke up about this. It's a huge misconception. It's expensive and it doesn't get you there faster. Car rides are still hugely popular in Europe.

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Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
For the Record , we don't want a European system.....were building a large scale system in this region...and thats all i care about. Outside the NE , build as many highways as you want....but in this region Rail is priority.... The Railway towns grew faster then the Auto towns , people are tired of traffic and are changing to Rail / Transit. Regional Rail ridership is 1.1 Million in NYC region and growing fast..... There aren't any lines here in the NE that are 1000 miles mostly 200-500 miles....
Totally agree. I've said from the beginning that, for the right price, high speed rail in the NEC makes complete sense. Outside of the Northeast is where people are more skeptical about HSR, and for good reason. Public transit advocates in the US chirp about how terrible flying is, how cramped it is, what a hassle security is, how delayed it gets. They're being disingenuous, but that's their loss. I fly quite a bit and I don't find air travel to be a hassle at all. I find it quite convenient; it's inexpensive, fast, efficient, and 95% of the time I run into no delays.

The highway system in the US is great too. Road trips are a blast, and cars give you complete flexibility to move around your destination, especially when you are unfamiliar with the area. If people want to claim that trying to figure out the bus and light rail system while transferring from one mode of public transit to another is somehow better than simply punching your destination into your car's GPS, that's fine, but most Americans disagree. For one, it's impossible to get to family in suburban areas where public transit doesn't go, so someone will have to pick you up anyway. There is virtually no way to escape the car in America.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 12:31 AM   #6527
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HSR should be done regionally IMO like in the Midwest.

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If they're with their family, money and local mobility counts, hence they will be going by car up to 1000 miles.
What do you mean by local mobility?

Last edited by LtBk; March 7th, 2011 at 01:45 AM.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 01:52 AM   #6528
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I agree with you.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 02:09 AM   #6529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
Doesn't Europe have plenty of low-coast airplanes? I don't really see the point of driving up to 1000 miles in you cars even with families.
Well, it depends. Car rentals are more expensive in Europe than in US. I love low-cost airlines - for a weekend getaway alone -. If you have 2 kids and are travelling with them on vacation, you won't make it only with hand luggage. Then you add checked bag fees, then you add expensive transportation to/from airports, and lack of mobility once you arrive in your destination. Gosh, a family of 4 usually can't fit together in a taxi.

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Isn't that based on transportation mileage?
It is.

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Originally Posted by Maxx☢Power View Post
Even though Europeans don't travel great distances by train (which is mostly done by backpackers who want to travel like the locals and blend in.. like a sore thumb)
Majority of people I met in hostels around Europe were travelling by low-cost airlines, which happen to be much popular among locals anyway.

Quote:
, people do use trains for shorter intercity and intracity journeys much, much more than in the US. And even when you fly somewhere, you're most likely to use public transport at your destination to get around. This is especially true for larger cities, where using public transport is hugely more practical than driving in a city you're not familiar with. The road trip style journeys are mostly limited to that once-a-year Great Southern Migration.
There is some truth to that, but once you are used to the hassles of driving in your own country, you easily catch up with driving in another big city. Individual trips are another issue than family trips. Car rentals, as I told, are expensive and much less popular in European airports than in North America. There are rental parking lots, but they ware way smaller than the average rental parking facility of the average American airport hub.

Again, the share of car on land transportation is high, above 70% in all Western European countries and rapidly increasing in Eastern European ones. The difference is that in US rail intercity transport is negligible and in Europe it it gets a minority of the market. Rail accounted for 0.8% of all American passenger*mile count and it accounts from 3-15% in EU countries.

Here where I live (Netherlands) rail is extensively deployed and not expensive for local wages. There are 250 stations in a country of 32.000km² of land. Services run frequently. Yet, it accounts only for 13% of all motorized land transport (there is no domestic flight services in the country).
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Old March 7th, 2011, 02:25 AM   #6530
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This latest Oil crisis , will only increase the demand for Rail and Accelerate Rail projects in this region. There are also a few Highway Demolitions underway I-678 , CT -34 and I-195.... I don't think this oil crisis will go away....and only get worse.... Transit ridership across the US jumped by 10% in the past week.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 02:25 AM   #6531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
For the Record , we don't want a European system.....
Well, someone just wrote:
"One can travel from London to Berlin, and explore both cities and their suburbs without the need for a car. Try doing the same in Los Angeles and New York."
Such comment can be understood as wishing for Americans to take trains from NYC to LA which is of course total stupidity as you know. First such distance is two, three times longer than from London to Berlin. Second, even in Europe very few people make journeys from London to Berlin by train.

I have strong suspicion that you might have more people traveling from NYC to Chicago by train than from London to Berlin

Quote:
...were building a large scale system in this region...and thats all i care about. Outside the NE , build as many highways as you want....but in this region Rail is priority....
Totally agree about need for more rail in the north east. That's probably the only region in US dense enough to justify regional rail.

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Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
If America had a HSR system connecting all major cities within 500 miles of one another, well over 80 percent of the population would have access to it.
What you mean by major cities? Kansas City to St Louis? Oklahoma City to Dallas? Dallas to Houston? How many people travel daily between such cities? HSR make sense only with very large passenger numbers. Even in Europe more and more people question economic sense of some of the High Speed lines and ridership on some lines is lower than expected.
SF to LA could be considered but it might be too long and quite expensive to build in seismic zone. I think HSR in California is dead.

Quote:
America east of the Mississippi is as densely populated as Europe.
Wrong, it might be as densely populated as some parts of Europe but nowhere near the European heartland where HSR are the most successful. By that I mean South England, Benelux, Northern France, Western and Southern Germany and Northern Italy.

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Air travel in most cities is terrible and consists of people being packed into tiny sardine cans prone to delays.
Have you ever used train in London? There you can see people packed like sardines

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
HSR should be done regionally IMO like in the Midwest.
Distances in the Midwest are to long and population is too small for HSR.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx☢Power View Post
HSRs make plenty sense between cities where travel times are <4h, which has been shown on Madrid-Barcelona, Paris-London etc. The idea of flying from London to Paris is quite absurd when you can go from city center to city center in a couple of hours.
For people living in central London train has great advantage when traveling to central Paris. But if you live in the suburbs or in wider region, and not necessarily travel to central Paris, plane might have an advantage. Plenty of people still fly between those cities.

Anyway, we probably are a bit OT as this is thread about highways
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Old March 7th, 2011, 02:34 AM   #6532
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Airports tend to be built at inconvenient places IMO, but that's another discussion.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 02:36 AM   #6533
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Quote:
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There are also a few Highway Demolitions underway I-678 , CT -34 and I-195.... I don't think this oil crisis will go away....and only get worse....
Misleading.

First, I couldn't find anything on demolition of I-678 in New York but, indeed, a project widening.

I-195 in Providence is being demolished in a 1.5mi stretch that has been already replaced by a bypass :p

CT-34 is New Haven has been slated for demolition in a small stretch of 1.1mi because they decided not to expand further at its terminus it and sold the ROW for development.

Quote:
Transit ridership across the US jumped by 10% in the past week.
I doubt transit agencies can provide such a national figure in 48 hours. Honestly.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 02:42 AM   #6534
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Misleading.

First, I couldn't find anything on demolition of I-678 in New York but, indeed, a project widening.

I-195 in Providence is being demolished in a 1.5mi stretch that has been already replaced by a bypass :p

CT-34 is New Haven has been slated for demolition in a small stretch of 1.1mi because they decided not to expand further at its terminus it and sold the ROW for development.



I doubt transit agencies can provide such a national figure in 48 hours. Honestly.
1. The Sheridan Expressway or I-895 sorry not 678 is slated form Demolition....

2. Yea , but its a growing trend of Highway relocation form the CBD to the outer areas ....its a good trend aswell... Also covering Highways in Cuts with Urban parks...or buildings..

3. Its form the past week not 48hrs.....and yes they can....they do it after new lines open.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 02:46 AM   #6535
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1. The Sheridan Expressway or I-895 sorry not 678 is slated form Demolition....

NYDOT apparently disagrees that it should be demolished.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 02:49 AM   #6536
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NYDOT apparently disagrees that it should be demolished.
Hmmm , i heard NYC has other plans , when NYC gets involved it usually happens ....i don't think traffic would worsen. They have I78 and Hunts Point Truck traffic is decreasing as the areas factories close up...and are redeveloped...
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Old March 7th, 2011, 05:40 AM   #6537
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I-895 is rather useless anyway, I-87 and the Bronx River Parkway both fills it's purpose more or less.

Route 34 is being demolished on it's end because it is useless as well and it created such a hole in New Haven's downtown.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 05:52 AM   #6538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nexis View Post
This latest Oil crisis , will only increase the demand for Rail and Accelerate Rail projects in this region. There are also a few Highway Demolitions underway I-678 , CT -34 and I-195.... I don't think this oil crisis will go away....and only get worse.... Transit ridership across the US jumped by 10% in the past week.
What I-195?

Mike
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Old March 7th, 2011, 09:18 AM   #6539
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I wonder how disillusioned Nexis must be if he comes to the Netherlands, or France, or Germany, or Denmark, or whatever European countries which have 2 - 3 times higher fuel prices than the US, what he calls an "oil crisis".

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; March 7th, 2011 at 09:33 AM.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 09:30 AM   #6540
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Anyway back to the Original Topic.....

The I-90/ 94 split near Tomah, WI

City of Tomah
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