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Old March 8th, 2011, 09:12 PM   #6561
gigilamoroso
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
If you consider the variables you pointed out, I'd go for Houston Metro. If you consider population, Kansas City does nice also.
thanks; what about congestion in these metro areas?
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Old March 8th, 2011, 09:12 PM   #6562
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Nexis, I approve of transit in theory and think we need it. Particularly in urban areas, we need to encourage transit use for everyone for whom it's practical, rather than clogging highways in rush hours. But your expectations that everyone will eagerly jump into trains if we fill the country with railroads are just unrealistic. I live a few blocks from 30th Street Station and have been on a train only once since I acquired a car. (Because I needed to be in the suburbs for a work thing in January and my car was blocked in by a mound of snow a plow had pushed up against it.) If I want to go to Washington, for example, for the afternoon, why should I walk to the station, wait until there's a train (and these days, book it in advance), spend over $100.00 round trip and have to get from Union Station to where I want to be, when I can drive more or less door-to-door on my own time and for a fraction of that cost? If I want to go to my parents for the weekend, it's easier on my mother if she doesn't have to drive to MetroPark to pick me up. Amtrak in the Northeast Corridor has gotten to be a luxury for people who make more money than I do and an overpriced necessity for people who don't own cars. In the rest of the country...?
I said the NE...outside the NE it won't work.....you can't reopen rural lines since they will barely get used. In the NE Rural lines are and will be used by a decent amount of riders..... Hopefully when the regional gaps along the NEC are filled more people will use the train. The Train form NYC to DC would only cost 30$. Theres a growing need for Rail in certain parts of the NE , where its been neglected like SE PA and Delaware.....we need to address those areas... We also have to address the cost of the trains....and speed. NJ - NY - CT - MA have done this by upgrading there networks and expanding them....other states have lagged and suffered.... SE PA has alot planned but funding has always been a issue in PA for both highways and rail transit...
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Old March 8th, 2011, 11:03 PM   #6563
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of the many opinions, arguments for or against, and written conversations on the subject of high speed rail in our country, one of the most sensible ones is made by nexis. the reality is that, while high speed rail might work well in the northeast, on the west coast, maybe in florida, and a very few additional places, i just don't understand these individuals who keep trying to push this concept for the nation. it is not fiscally responsible, the population in most areas fails miserably to justify such a thing, and it would be cost prohibitive for the average ridership. i don't see why these things aren't easily seen, and i have asked time and time again, who is it that is pushing this agenda throughout america? i could see the expansion of amtrak, and i would love to see the major cities of states connected via amtrak, and the return of the use of trains to travel to all parts of america through high speed rail. however, the cities that have light rail (because it looks cool, as i have been told on so many occasions) are having major difficulty filling seats. i don't know what the adr is in most of the smaller cities, such as slc, charlotte, for example, but cities like nashville, memphis, b'ham, and basically similarly sized cities could never justify the money spent on a major rail line connection to spend federal dollars and public money w/ such small metro populations.

i like the plan memphis has to put in light rail from the airport to downtown and tie it in to the downtown medical districts; however, to try to hook up the entire metropolitan area cannot be justified because of numbers and the unrealistic costs. currently, nashville, is trying to run something similar to an old coal burning or steam engine train (may be a prop from petticoat junction, lol) in order to appear that nashville is bringing in loads of people from the pastures---i think they are actually begging people to ride it---yet, again, these trains are obviously needed in areas where 8 to 13 million people are strung together, or where 3 to 7 million, etc exist. maybe, atlanta might qualify, houston, dallas-fort worth, but a definite lack of justification everywhere else, for both the money, the return, and so many other additional concerns.
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Old March 8th, 2011, 11:48 PM   #6564
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Originally Posted by gigilamoroso View Post
thanks; what about congestion in these metro areas?
Kansas City is one of the least congested metro areas in the United States, along with several other midwest metro areas (like Oklahoma City, Tulsa, Denver, Albuquerque, Little Rock, Louisville, etc.)

Houston is known for being the only city which actually cut congestion in the past 20 years despite growing by approximately 2 million people. Still, congestion in Houston is significant.

No major metropolitan area can be completely traffic-jam free. You can't have millions of people travel to work in a 2 - 3 hour time-frame while freeways have hourly lane capacities of approximately 2000 vehicles. However, it makes quite a difference if it are just slow patches and full exit ramps or completely jammed freeways with stationary traffic. Many people forget to take such differences into account.
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Old March 9th, 2011, 12:29 AM   #6565
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Even with congestion, because car efficiency is linear throughout the commute (no waiting time for connections, no walking long strolls at each end), cities that are more car-based usually have less average or median commute time than transit-based ones. New York Metro, for instance, has the longest average US commute among all metropolitan areas (comparing individual cities is useless), even if it is the only metro where more than 30% of commuters use transit.

The reasoning is quite simple: if you add mere 10-min. walks in each end of a transit-based commute + 5-min. connection in the middle of the journey, you already stacked 2 x 25 = 50min. to your daily commute. Even if you have some quite jammed route, chances are you can easily beat a transit-based commute.
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Old March 9th, 2011, 02:46 AM   #6566
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Also, people who bitch about congestion, you experience the same in subways. You can hardly breathe at times and can't choose to not stand next to a smelly person. I'd gladly spend 15 minutes more in my car than experience that. I must implore though, I'm not anti-transit AT ALL, unlike car-haters who are on a jihad against cars. In fact, whenever I've been in a city with subways, I've always used them except for in Chicago.
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Old March 9th, 2011, 02:48 AM   #6567
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
Even with congestion, because car efficiency is linear throughout the commute (no waiting time for connections, no walking long strolls at each end), cities that are more car-based usually have less average or median commute time than transit-based ones. New York Metro, for instance, has the longest average US commute among all metropolitan areas (comparing individual cities is useless), even if it is the only metro where more than 30% of commuters use transit.

The reasoning is quite simple: if you add mere 10-min. walks in each end of a transit-based commute + 5-min. connection in the middle of the journey, you already stacked 2 x 25 = 50min. to your daily commute. Even if you have some quite jammed route, chances are you can easily beat a transit-based commute.
THat's true. Walking to and from the station + switching trains + waiting can add considerable time to the travel. I'm sure most people don't just live next to a station and always arrive when the train arrives. In fact, even most stations are so big that from entrance to the platform it can take anything like 3-5 minutes.
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Old March 9th, 2011, 03:27 AM   #6568
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Originally Posted by siamu maharaj View Post
Also, people who bitch about congestion, you experience the same in subways. You can hardly breathe at times and can't choose to not stand next to a smelly person. I'd gladly spend 15 minutes more in my car than experience that. I must implore though, I'm not anti-transit AT ALL, unlike car-haters who are on a jihad against cars. In fact, whenever I've been in a city with subways, I've always used them except for in Chicago.
Well at least they move unlike the Highways and Tollways that are sluggish.....i'm not a car hater....i'm trying to cut down on congestion , we also need to upgrade our highways in this country to Smart Highways that would solve half the issues... Highway spending accounts for 97% of the Transportation funding ,Transit accounts for only 3%...that should be 50/50...... We also need to stop building highways in states were the existing highways are near collapse..... We also need to raise the gas tax in most states to cover Highway spending...
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Old March 9th, 2011, 06:27 AM   #6569
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I'm just waiting for John Boehner to announce plans for a "gas tax holiday"... after which we will never have a gas tax again. You think the GOP will allow it to expire? You think the Democrats will fight the GOP on the issue?

It's going to be an even darker era for our transit and roads as funds dry up to pay for them.
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Old March 9th, 2011, 06:36 AM   #6570
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I'm just waiting for John Boehner to announce plans for a "gas tax holiday"... after which we will never have a gas tax again. You think the GOP will allow it to expire? You think the Democrats will fight the GOP on the issue?

It's going to be an even darker era for our transit and roads as funds dry up to pay for them.
Well most states use sales tax to fund there programs....and the ones that do fund the transit via gas or tolls are in the NE where the feds dump most of the $$$ for Transit... Will be fine , but you will suffer.... But this wouldn't have to be if they could fix the Govt....instead they leave it a mess...
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Old March 9th, 2011, 08:16 AM   #6571
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This thread is about this:

not this:
image hosted on flickr

resedabear on flickr
or this:

and definitely not these:


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Old March 9th, 2011, 04:13 PM   #6572
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Yes! For those topics, better go to the Subways and Urban Transport forum.
I liked that thing that was on I-238 Southbound on Street View. They have updated the images, so is no longer there.
Yes, there is an I-238, but there's no I-38! I know the history about the 238 in the Bay area...
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Old March 9th, 2011, 08:59 PM   #6573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gigilamoroso View Post
thanks; what about congestion in these metro areas?
I just moved to Kansas City one week ago from Columbus, Ohio and I have yet to hit major congestion here. In Columbus there are few freeways and it would take me close to an hour to drive 22 miles to work via I-71 to Ohio 315 to the north Outerbelt (270). I'm interviewing for jobs here in KC and am living 10 miles north of the river/downtown and most of my interviews are in Overland Park, KS about 27 to 30 miles away and I can get down there in 30 minutes. Quite a difference than Columbus commutes.
The Kansas City freeway system is massive and overbuilt in my opinion but there are bottle necks in the urban area of KC, MO that cause brief slow downs.
KC soon will add I-49 to their list of Interstates which I have driven US71 numerous times in the past when I lived in Tulsa and it's primed and ready for the interstate upgrades.

The most useless interstate bridge in KC metro IMO is I-70 which connects the two KCs. It should just be demolished and rerouted over the 670 bridge and decommission 670.

I-435 also bottlenecks at the Missouri river crossing in the East. It goes from 3 and 4 lanes per side to 2 lanes each direction at the bridge which causes backups. There's still improvements needed here.
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Old March 9th, 2011, 11:49 PM   #6574
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Hey!
I alway was quite fascinated by the KC metro fwy network. But when I finally got there, I was a bit disappointed: Quite outdated, bad pavement, oooold signs, many deserted sections... especially in the MO part, surprisingly the KS suburbian fwys seemed to be a lot more modern - but to be honest, that was in 1999! Is it still anything like this? Btw, the city itself, I liked a lot! Really cool with downtown, crwon center, plaza area... I think many people really underestimate the city.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 03:48 AM   #6575
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I'll be driving from Fairfax to Roanoke and back on Thursday next week by way of Interstate 66 and 81. I guess then I'll see how much worse the pavement got this winter...

My car needs to have its wheels balanced. I'll just blame the vibration on the pavement. It was a hard winter.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 05:43 AM   #6576
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My car needs to have its wheels balanced. I'll just blame the vibration on the pavement. It was a hard winter.
Out of curiosity: how much does such service cost in a regular US repair shop or service station nowadays?
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Old March 10th, 2011, 05:46 AM   #6577
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Hey!
I alway was quite fascinated by the KC metro fwy network. But when I finally got there, I was a bit disappointed: Quite outdated, bad pavement, oooold signs, many deserted sections... especially in the MO part, surprisingly the KS suburbian fwys seemed to be a lot more modern - but to be honest, that was in 1999! Is it still anything like this? Btw, the city itself, I liked a lot! Really cool with downtown, crwon center, plaza area... I think many people really underestimate the city.
It is an underrated city but so far I'm impressed with it! The freeways here are in pretty good shape and since 1999 kcscout transport system has been implemented. Also MODOT but a new cable bridge for the interstate 29/35 Missouri river crossing. It opened this past November.

What I'd like to see eventually is I72 extend across the northern tier of Missouri and ending at I29 in St. joseph
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Old March 11th, 2011, 09:14 PM   #6578
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The most useless interstate bridge in KC metro IMO is I-70 which connects the two KCs. It should just be demolished and rerouted over the 670 bridge and decommission 670.
When looking a map of this location I also noticed that I-70 takes an odd route. Even for people taking I-35 north or I-29, the connection is still better from I-670. I'm not sure about demolishing the road since it's already there, but at least switch the naming so I-70 flows better.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 09:22 PM   #6579
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I-70 and I-670 carry a combined traffic volume of 120,000 vehicles per day. You cannot just demolish either one, as this will have major implications not only for I-70 capacity, but also the whole routing of traffic around downtown Kansas City. For example the W-N and N-W connections on the I-35/I-670 interchange are missing. Also; the I-70/I-670 interchange in Kansas is also missing connections, plus I-35 has only 4 through lanes on the western loop of downtown KC.

It's much better to demolish the entire industrial area at Kaw Point and turn it into a second CBD if necessary.
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Old March 12th, 2011, 05:00 AM   #6580
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bad bad bad bad bad. Sucks. What's next, separate lanes by ethnicity?
I think it's would be better if not using space frame, disturbing the view.

Make it simple, let the car drivers see the full sky view
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