daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 12th, 2007, 12:38 PM   #641
kub86
Twinkie
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Seattle/Bellevue
Posts: 733
Likes (Received): 10

yeah, the viaduct is just an elevated road without stoplights for a mile. That's why the cars come in spurts and the traffic never gets heavy except during peak for about an hour. Otherwise, the viaduct is virtually empty. To increase capacity just to alleviate rush hour congestion is stupid. I also hate the argument that people want to rebuild it simply because they like the views and to impress the out-of-towners. The new viaduct will have giant WALLS so only truck drivers would get a glimpse of something. Most would see a concrete barrier out your window. Gosh, when will people realize this??

Just turn it into a 6-lane landscaped boulevard. Add transit. People's driving habits will change. Everything will be just fine.....as everyone will find out when the city's functioning perfectly when the viaduct's closed for rebuilding or whatever.
kub86 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 12th, 2007, 06:50 PM   #642
sbarn
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC & Bay Area
Posts: 1,222
Likes (Received): 991

Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesMetroBoy View Post
here is the thing most people still dont understand about america, our roads aint the smoothest in the world, but they work. Its not comfortbale to drive over donner pass, but people do. You cant break an axel or loose a car in those cracks, although they do make the drive a litttle more uncomfortbale. We buy thicker tires that can hande a little jaring every now and again, and guess what, we move on. Maybe the rest of the world should too.
Well said. To be honest, I feel it is a little ridiculous there is an entire thread devoted to the state of American roads. Yes, on average, European roads have higher pavement quality. That said, the majority of countries around the world would LOVE to have such an extensive highway system as what exists in the United States.
sbarn no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2007, 05:01 AM   #643
Chicagoago
Registered User
 
Chicagoago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,707
Likes (Received): 1451

Quote:
Originally Posted by LosAngelesMetroBoy View Post
here is the thing most people still dont understand about america, our roads aint the smoothest in the world, but they work. Its not comfortbale to drive over donner pass, but people do. You cant break an axel or loose a car in those cracks, although they do make the drive a litttle more uncomfortbale. We buy thicker tires that can hande a little jaring every now and again, and guess what, we move on. Maybe the rest of the world should too.

But the argument of roads based on states, i think wyoming and south carolina have some of the best roads, they may not be the smoothest, but there mostly straight and easy to get on and off.

I'd agree with this, they're not the best, they're not the worst. A car I've driven in has never been DAMAGED just from driving down the road. I think we just went and built a LOT of paved roads for how many people we have to pay for them. We can't treat them all with extra love and care.
Chicagoago no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2007, 06:29 AM   #644
Alex Von Königsberg
Registered User
 
Alex Von Königsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,053
Likes (Received): 11

It is all understandable, but the government still has to at least try to keep some major arteries—and I-80 can certainly be referred as such—in a satisfactory condition. I never complained about the entire interstate network, and I admitted that some parts of it does have an outstanding pavement quality, but some parts are in a very bad shape. Our argument basically boils down to this — you say that the quality similar to that of O'Donner Pass is still bearable, and I say it is not. As long as I remember, no one argued about the entire interstate network in this thread.
Alex Von Königsberg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2007, 07:42 AM   #645
pwalker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Native Seattleite
Posts: 1,438
Likes (Received): 66

Well, I've never advocated rebuilding the viaduct "just for the views"...Views are a bonus from highway design, but shouldn't be a justification for highway design.

I believe Seattle needs to improve its north-south corridors, both with I-5 and the waterfront. Anyone familiar with I-5 through Seattle knows that about 80% of the time it is a bottleneck. There needs to be a total redesign there, but unfortunately, other projects (520, and the Viaduct), have priority. I believe that shutting down the viaduct (either temporarily or permanently) will just divert more traffic to an already clogged I-5. What is truely needed is an expanded I-5, (with fewer lane endings/restrictions, etc.), combined with an expanded Viaduct-99, frankly tunnel or elevated doesn't matter to me (although the cost will be higher with tunnel). Bottom line is you need these N-S routes in a very narrow land-mass.

Last edited by pwalker; April 13th, 2007 at 08:28 PM.
pwalker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2007, 06:10 PM   #646
yerfdog
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 70
Likes (Received): 0

It's not "O'Donner," it's just Donner Pass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Pass


and not nitpick even more, but the 80 doesn't actually go through that pass, I think, but a little bit to the north.
yerfdog no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2007, 06:12 PM   #647
Siopao
レジスタドユーザー
 
Siopao's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Tokyo
Posts: 1,417
Likes (Received): 100

I went to Buffalo and their interstate is horrible.
Siopao no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2007, 07:07 PM   #648
Chicagoago
Registered User
 
Chicagoago's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,707
Likes (Received): 1451

I notice how involved people are in this thread - but honestly I NEVER EVER hear any Americans or media outlets doing any stories on interstate quality. Good, bad, ok, they're just roads. People could care less until it gets really bad, at which point they're normally resurfaced. If people complain they repair the roads, but other than that many times it's just live and let live.
Chicagoago no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2007, 09:57 PM   #649
Jaxom92
Urban Studies Grad
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbarn View Post
To be honest, I feel it is a little ridiculous there is an entire thread devoted to the state of American roads.
I apologize. I thought it would have been an interesting topic for discussion. The seven pages of discussion seem to indicate that indeed people are interested and still posting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoago
I notice how involved people are in this thread - but honestly I NEVER EVER hear any Americans or media outlets doing any stories on interstate quality. Good, bad, ok, they're just roads. People could care less until it gets really bad, at which point they're normally resurfaced. If people complain they repair the roads, but other than that many times it's just live and let live.
It is an interesting phenomenon and one that has larger implications for creating a transportation system capable of keeping this country moving well into the 21st century. I think we need to be more proactive with managing, maintaining, and building our highway system.

It seems the general consensus thus far is that there are a few choice cases where the roads are deplorable, but on a whole, American roads aren't too terrible. Perhaps what I'm seeing is a localized case where 50-year-old concrete has reached the end of it's usable lifetime in my metropolitan region. Indeed, there is a wide spread effort across the Seattle area to deal with this problem. It'll take a while, but incidentally, 2007 will be the busiest highway construction year ever in the state of Washington (barring the initial construction of the interstates, that is).
__________________
Jax
Jaxom92 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2007, 10:48 PM   #650
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

Quote:
Originally Posted by Siopao View Post
I went to Buffalo and their interstate is horrible.
There are several interstates and other freeway in and around Buffalo
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old April 13th, 2007, 11:26 PM   #651
KoolKeatz
█████████
 
KoolKeatz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Berlin
Posts: 979
Likes (Received): 102

Quote:
Originally Posted by sprtsluvr8 View Post
How ironic...such an ignorant and egotistical generalization about "Americans behaving ignorantly and egotistically". I lived in Europe for a year and until then I had never seen such reckless, carefree driving in my life. I'm not saying European drivers are maniacs because I wouldn't make such a sweeping, misguided statement. But I would say that traffic overall was a nightmare compared to traffic in the U.S. I guess it depends on what one is accustomed to...
btw europe isnt one country. they are 46 different countrys and very different streets and styles of driving. i think u can say that they drive more dangerous in the southern countrys but there are still big differences. in my opinion driving in germany is more safe then in the states... might be subjective
KoolKeatz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2007, 06:03 AM   #652
Alex Von Königsberg
Registered User
 
Alex Von Königsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,053
Likes (Received): 11

Quote:
Originally Posted by yerfdog View Post
It's not "O'Donner," it's just Donner Pass

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Pass


and not nitpick even more, but the 80 doesn't actually go through that pass, I think, but a little bit to the north.
Pardon my imperfect English It is called Donner Summit, and it is the highest elevation on I-80 (at least in the West). And by the way, Donner Summit is slightly higher than Donner Pass (2,203 m vs 2,160 m).

Alex Von Königsberg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2007, 06:51 AM   #653
pwalker
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Native Seattleite
Posts: 1,438
Likes (Received): 66

For the record, Donner Pass is about two miles south of I-80. However, it was the main highway at one time.

Last edited by pwalker; April 14th, 2007 at 06:08 PM.
pwalker no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2007, 07:34 AM   #654
philvia
Registered User
 
philvia's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Nyc
Posts: 1,022
Likes (Received): 33

So arguing about how the superiority of roads in countries many, many, many times smaller than the United States is fair?

Our country is so large and our network is so monstrous that it's hardly even imaginable to have the entire network perfect. That's why the states control the roads within their boundaries. And as you're probably aware, most states aren't as wealthy as others, or their priorities are focused elsewhere.. hence the fact that the roads in Tennessee could be perfect and as soon as you cross the state line into Missouri/Arkansas the roads are made out of bumpy, loud, sectional concrete.

Someone was complaining about a crack in the road and even took a picture of it... the crack was how wide? a few inches maybe? when you're going 60+mph, how long does it take to go over the crack? it's like 1/16th of a second.. you go over it and forget. stop nitpicking.
philvia no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2007, 07:59 AM   #655
Alex Von Königsberg
Registered User
 
Alex Von Königsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,053
Likes (Received): 11

It wouldn't be all that bad if there was a single crack. However, if you have continuous cracks 3-4 cm wide for 30 km, then the ride becomes VERY BUMPY That stretch of the interstate begins at the California border and continues to the junction of I-80 and CA-89 (near Truckee).
Alex Von Königsberg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2007, 09:33 AM   #656
Jaxom92
Urban Studies Grad
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 0

You have a good point, philvia, about the size of the countries relative to our own. I think that is something that factors in. European countries are relatively wealthy compared to the rest of the world. So is the U.S., but the smaller countries have less volume of infrastructure to worry about paying for. The U.S. has many more paved miles. Not to mention a growing population that puts increasing pressure on our roads.

So, it is correct that the comparison isn't fair in the idea that European countries are superior road managers. But the comparison becomes valid in answer the question why American roads have more trouble than those of our European neighbors.
__________________
Jax
Jaxom92 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2007, 05:56 PM   #657
Paddington
Registered User
 
Paddington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: The Southland
Posts: 4,665
Likes (Received): 1261

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxom92 View Post
You have a good point, philvia, about the size of the countries relative to our own. I think that is something that factors in. European countries are relatively wealthy compared to the rest of the world. So is the U.S., but the smaller countries have less volume of infrastructure to worry about paying for. The U.S. has many more paved miles. Not to mention a growing population that puts increasing pressure on our roads.

So, it is correct that the comparison isn't fair in the idea that European countries are superior road managers. But the comparison becomes valid in answer the question why American roads have more trouble than those of our European neighbors.
Other factors are that Western Europe has a much milder climate overall compared to the continental climate prevalent throughout much of the U.S. Also, in Europe the vehicles are much smaller (European trucks are tiny, compared to what you see on American interstates) and the volume of traffic is less, so there is much less wear on the roads.
Paddington no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2007, 07:18 PM   #658
Minato ku
Moderator
 
Minato ku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Paris, Montrouge
Posts: 16,746

The volume of traffic is not less.
__________________
すみません !
J’aime Paris et je veux des tours !
Minato ku no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2007, 08:08 PM   #659
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,595
Likes (Received): 19389

Quote:
Originally Posted by minato ku View Post
The volume of traffic is not less.
Traffic near larger US cities are significant higher than their European counterparts, however, European motorways are often overcrowded and mostly not wider dan 2x4 lanes, while 12 or more lanes is common in US cities.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old April 14th, 2007, 09:31 PM   #660
Jaxom92
Urban Studies Grad
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 203
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris1491 View Post
Traffic near larger US cities are significant higher than their European counterparts, however, European motorways are often overcrowded and mostly not wider dan 2x4 lanes, while 12 or more lanes is common in US cities.
12 lanes... does that mean 6 one way, 6 the other or 12 one way? I guess the Seattle area isn't typical because them most lanes I've seen in any given area are 5 one way, including the carpool lane, but not merge lanes. Actually, in Seattle, the freeway shrinks to two lanes one way (idiotic transportation engineering/politics when they built I-5 through the city).
__________________
Jax
Jaxom92 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
america, california, highway, highways, interstate, los angeles, united states, urban

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium