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Old April 15th, 2011, 04:51 PM   #6661
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Originally Posted by FM 2258 View Post
I still say make it 85. Traffic will do its own thing and slow everyone down just like it does in a 65 zone. One thing I've noticed on freeways at least here in Texas is that there are still a lot of people that like to cruise way below the speed limit. I look over and wonder if they're on drugs, not paying attention or what. Speed Limit in the city is 65 and they're lounging in the slow lane doing 50.

When I was much younger my perception was that everyone was itching to drive fast, frustratingly it seems that slow drivers really screw up the flow of a freeway.
I read the article you posted and also this post. I would remind you that the speed limit is not a target that you should be aiming for. Just because the speed limit is 65, doesn't mean everyone should be necessary be doing exactly 65. For example, when it's raining or foggy, people shouldn't be doing 65 anyway.

I do like Texas's idea of posting the "range", in other words stay with 45 and 80(or whatever it may be in the cities there in Texas). Of course 45 is probably too slow for a minimum range. 50 would probably be better.

I think 80 mph is an excellent idea, but not in Texas, nor anywhere in The States frankly. If Americans had better driving training, like in Western Europe, I would be for it, but until Americans learn how to drive better, I think 60-70 mph is fast enough, especially since US traffic accident statistics are much higher that in Western Europe.

I'm not putting Americans down. I am one(Californian), but I have lived long enough in Europe, and driven through different countries in W Europe enough times to know that Americans really need to get their act together and learn some driving skills, such as basic lane discipline.

For example, make it illegal(and enforce it) to pass on your right. If you want to pass, you need to go to a left lane. And if the person behind you wants to get by, stay to the right!! That would help eliminate those silly traffic bunches that I have been forced to endure on the I-5 in the middle of nowhere Central California because some idiot persists in staying in the left lane, while staying at the same speed as the 18-wheeler in the right lane! Just one place to start.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 05:01 PM   #6662
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For example, make it illegal(and enforce it) to pass on your right. If you want to pass, you need to go to a left lane. And if the person behind you wants to get by, stay to the right!! That would help eliminate those silly traffic bunches that I have been forced to endure on the I-5 in the middle of nowhere Central California because some idiot persists in staying in the left lane, while staying at the same speed as the 18-wheeler in the right lane! Just one place to start.
For instance, in Connecticut, passing on the right is actually illegal in the book, but the question is no enforcement is being made to make this a clear cut telling everyone it is illegal to pass on the right, similar with cruising on the left lane when not passing.

If fact, one local police officer one time traveled at about70 mph on a 35 mph local road in the middle of the night, passed his colleague on the right with no siren on, then crashed into another car killed two teenagers at a intersection, and ended up charging with man slaughter. I think this tragedy actually made it to the national news. The point is, if the people that suppose to enforce the laws and regulations are in violation on their own, how could you expect the general public obey the same kind of regulations and laws at the same time?
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Old April 15th, 2011, 05:07 PM   #6663
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For instance, in Connecticut, passing on the right is actually illegal in the book, but the question is no enforcement is being made to make this a clear cut telling everyone it is illegal to pass on the right, similar with cruising on the left lane when not passing.

If fact, one local police officer one time traveled at about70 mph on a 35 mph local road in the middle of the night, passed his colleague on the right with no siren on, then crashed into another car killed two teenagers at a intersection, and ended up charging with man slaughter. I think this tragedy actually made it to the national news. The point is, if the people that suppose to enforce the laws and regulations are in violation on their own, how could you expect the general public obey the same kind of regulations and laws at the same time?

I agree, hence what I said about enforcing it! It does work, even on freeways with 4 lanes.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 05:49 PM   #6664
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I-95 in Miami. Another great video.

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Old April 15th, 2011, 05:51 PM   #6665
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I don't know about that: you could define I-95 in northeastern Maryland as a rural Interstate, but traffic can be pretty heavy....
I dunno, I was doing 85 there last week.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 06:11 PM   #6666
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I don't think it's enforcement of the law that's lacking. It might bring more attention to the problem, but the real problem is lack of driving etiquette (as in, it doesn't exist, people don't think it's a big deal).

People don't keep to the right in Europe because they're afraid to get fined (something that rarely happens) but because it's a part of the social etiquette..
I think you mean "they DO keep to the right."
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Old April 15th, 2011, 06:34 PM   #6667
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I dunno, I was doing 85 there last week.
If everyone was, it would be a problem. (Personally, I'm most comfortable between 70 and 75; above that it starts to feel too fast.) And - without having statistics at hand - I'm assuming an accident at 85 is more dangerous than one at 70. Perhaps that's an acceptable risk, perhaps not; don't feel like debating now. (Nor do I feel like debating policy implications like the fact that we're supposedly trying to wean ourselves from middle eastern oil.) I would say that if you're going to raise the limit to 85, you need to enforce it, and strictly.
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Old April 15th, 2011, 06:42 PM   #6668
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Originally Posted by Maxx☢Power View Post
I don't think it's enforcement of the law that's lacking. It might bring more attention to the problem, but the real problem is lack of driving etiquette (as in, it doesn't exist, people don't think it's a big deal).

People don't keep to the right in Europe because they're afraid to get fined (something that rarely happens) but because it's a part of the social etiquette. Cruising in the left lane or undertaking is frowned upon and people know this. It's like picking your nose in public, you just don't do it. And this etiquette is enforced by the common driver; try undertaking a few cars because you're impatient and you're likely to get honked at. Likewise I think maybe in the US if you see a BMW coming up fast behind you you're more inclined to think "well screw you Mr. BMW, you don't own the road" while in Europe you get out of the way.

Yes, it's social etiquette here in Western Europe, but it's also safer.
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Old April 16th, 2011, 02:21 AM   #6669
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1. Toll booth is going to be dangerous, and people/the DOT is afraid the 1983 tragedy will happen again. So toll booths are not going to be built at the boarder again.
In what way toll booths are dangerous? There are plenty of them in Europe and I never heard they are particular safety hazard. What happened in 1983?


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Originally Posted by Maxx☢Power View Post
I don't think it's enforcement of the law that's lacking. It might bring more attention to the problem, but the real problem is lack of driving etiquette (as in, it doesn't exist, people don't think it's a big deal).

People don't keep to the right in Europe because they're afraid to get fined (something that rarely happens) but because it's a part of the social etiquette. Cruising in the left lane or undertaking is frowned upon and people know this. It's like picking your nose in public, you just don't do it. And this etiquette is enforced by the common driver; try undertaking a few cars because you're impatient and you're likely to get honked at. Likewise I think maybe in the US if you see a BMW coming up fast behind you you're more inclined to think "well screw you Mr. BMW, you don't own the road" while in Europe you get out of the way.
Well, don't generalize about Europe. In Poland we complain how our drivers are and how they keep hogging the left lane, on Irish forum locals complain about Irish hogging right lane (overtaking lane in Ireland) etc. It seems like grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

But I do agree that lane discipline is particularly bad in the US. I remember driving I-15 from LA to Vegas on Friday evening few years ago. It is busy but flow of traffic would be much faster if people moved back to the right after overtaking. It is especially important on 2x2 rural freeways.
To defend American drivers I have to say lane discipline is much more complicated on urban freeways with 4 or more lanes in each directions with multiple exits an mergers in short distance. That's where majority of drivers drive a lot and they develop habits of keeping off right lanes as they are used mostly by merging and exiting drivers. Then they keep driving that way on 2x2 rural freeways.

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If everyone was, it would be a problem. (Personally, I'm most comfortable between 70 and 75; above that it starts to feel too fast.) And - without having statistics at hand - I'm assuming an accident at 85 is more dangerous than one at 70. Perhaps that's an acceptable risk, perhaps not; don't feel like debating now. (Nor do I feel like debating policy implications like the fact that we're supposedly trying to wean ourselves from middle eastern oil.) I would say that if you're going to raise the limit to 85, you need to enforce it, and strictly.
70-75 is way to slow for me on rural freeways. I get bored and distracted. Here in UK I drive in 80-90 range even in much heavier traffic. Not only me, plenty of people do so.
Obviously accident at 80 is more dangerous than at 60. But accident at 60 is more dangerous than accident at 40 etc. Where do we strike the balance?
People should remember that speed limit is not a target. If it's wet, visibility is bad or traffic is heavy, you just slow down. On German autobahns there are plenty of stretches with no limit and it is still country with one of the safest roads on earth. They do put limits where they needed and enforce them. Some states in the US could go that way. I remember that few years ago Montana didn't have limits on its freeways. Such solution makes perfect sense in sparsely populated states. When I drove in Dakotas or Nebraska I was thinking about it. Drop the universal limits on freeways and introduce local speed limits in urban areas or in some places with steep grades or tight curves.
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Old April 16th, 2011, 03:08 AM   #6670
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In what way toll booths are dangerous? There are plenty of them in Europe and I never heard they are particular safety hazard. What happened in 1983?
It isn't my word, but it's how the Connecticut politicians have expressed their opinion on toll booth.

The story was an accident occurred back then when a distracted tractor trailer truck driver plowed into dozen of cars that stopped at the toll booth who were waiting to pay. The accident killed numbers of people on scene. Since then, Connecticut removed all toll booths around the State to prevent such accident will ever happen again. The argument is if there is no toll booth, no one stops, and no one is going to be hurt or killed in another similar accident.
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Old April 16th, 2011, 03:55 AM   #6671
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In Chicago they love tolls booths. It's like the toll booth capital of the world. Every few miles you're paying tolls there.

The one I like best is the Skyway toll that has the McDonald's in the median. I always buy a coke there.

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Old April 16th, 2011, 04:05 AM   #6672
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It isn't my word, but it's how the Connecticut politicians have expressed their opinion on toll booth.

The story was an accident occurred back then when a distracted tractor trailer truck driver plowed into dozen of cars that stopped at the toll booth who were waiting to pay. The accident killed numbers of people on scene. Since then, Connecticut removed all toll booths around the State to prevent such accident will ever happen again. The argument is if there is no toll booth, no one stops, and no one is going to be hurt or killed in another similar accident.
Well, that's a bit lame, in my humble opinion: Connecticut is in the middle, more or less, of the most heavily-tolled area of the country, so they're surely aware that that sort of thing is not happening all that often in nearby states. (Not that I'm advocating the return of tolls.)
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Old April 16th, 2011, 04:39 AM   #6673
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In reality, it should be, but not in Connecticut. The toll proposed are supposed to only provide maintenance and other operational support for the infrastructure itself. These money in talk now are not supposed to go out to fund other infrastructures around the State.



There is also the missing piece of "Super 7" between north Norwalk and south Danbury. Amongst all, this piece is probably the most critical.

Anyways, the "real thing" have been in fire for a while, and turned off for a few times. The most recent one was last year, rejected just before this new proposal came out.
The whole loop conclusions have been
1. Toll booth is going to be dangerous, and people/the DOT is afraid the 1983 tragedy will happen again. So toll booths are not going to be built at the boarder again.
2. EZ-Pass or similar electronic tag is going to track where people go, and will be in violation of privacy, so the politicians are objecting to the touch-free high speed technology.

At the end, I just don't see toll highways will come back in CT in a fashion as they do in other states. Gas tax will still be the big part of the income source to fund transportation infrastructures in the State.
Hehe , but thats not how it happens in reality.....CT is a state that wants and = Transit / Highway system i have a feeling half the Tolls will go to Transit....
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Old April 16th, 2011, 05:20 AM   #6674
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Well, that's a bit lame, in my humble opinion: Connecticut is in the middle, more or less, of the most heavily-tolled area of the country, so they're surely aware that that sort of thing is not happening all that often in nearby states. (Not that I'm advocating the return of tolls.)
It isn't just "not happening all that often," but I don't recall having any after that one particular one occurred. It is plain politic, not scientific and engineering. One of such tragedy is more than enough to touch the politic nerve. If there is a way to avoid it, even if it may sound nonsense, the people in-charge will go for it to avoid oppositions.

And true that both NY and MA have toll roads, but there aren't that many booths across the state line.
I-95 only has booths on the northbound side in NY, and nothing on the southbound side; and it doesn't have anything on the RI side.
Rt 15 had booths 20+ years ago, but removed after the I-95 tragedy. All the booth areas have been converted in the service areas.
I-84 doesn't have booth on the NY state line, and does have one in the MA side, but it is usually pretty quite.
I-91 is also free from toll booth, too.

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Hehe , but thats not how it happens in reality.....CT is a state that wants and = Transit / Highway system i have a feeling half the Tolls will go to Transit....
If the toll system were to implement in all expressways, then certainly some money will go towards the public transport sector; however, if the toll system is going to go the new kind of a BOT-way with new construction, the money is so small it probably won't even be able to self-sustain financially.

The transit funding is still just going to find its own money from taxes, and federal grants.
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Old April 16th, 2011, 05:41 AM   #6675
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It isn't my word, but it's how the Connecticut politicians have expressed their opinion on toll booth.

The story was an accident occurred back then when a distracted tractor trailer truck driver plowed into dozen of cars that stopped at the toll booth who were waiting to pay. The accident killed numbers of people on scene. Since then, Connecticut removed all toll booths around the State to prevent such accident will ever happen again. The argument is if there is no toll booth, no one stops, and no one is going to be hurt or killed in another similar accident.
Sounds like good logic. But then, why not go for a booth-less toll road like the 407 in Ontario or ICC in Maryland?

No toll booths means no stopping means nobody gets killed by passing through overhead cameras/video.
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Old April 16th, 2011, 06:10 AM   #6676
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Sounds like good logic. But then, why not go for a booth-less toll road like the 407 in Ontario or ICC in Maryland?

No toll booths means no stopping means nobody gets killed by passing through overhead cameras/video.
It was debated, but privacy is the issue.
People were then afraid the on-board electronic tag and/or photo camera will become the big brother that can watch where you go on the road and they claim it is in violation of the constitution.
That's why red-light cameras are still illegal in Connecticut, even tough it has been proven the technology can discourage red light running and improve safety.
But then no one has complained about the blackberry or iphone that are in their pocket which do even better job in tracking if the big brother really wants to hunt you down. Again, it's politic and philosophy, not science or engineering.
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Old April 16th, 2011, 06:19 AM   #6677
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It was debated, but privacy is the issue.
People were then afraid the on-board electronic tag and/or photo camera will become the big brother that can watch where you go on the road and they claim it is in violation of the constitution.
That's why red-light cameras are still illegal in Connecticut, even tough it has been proven the technology can discourage red light running and improve safety.
But then no one has complained about the blackberry or iphone that are in their pocket which do even better job in tracking if the big brother really wants to hunt you down. Again, it's politic and philosophy, not science or engineering.
So what we need to do is toll the cars at the booths, but allow for trucks to go through without stopping. Let the semis be the ones video'd.

That way, nobody has to be killed.
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Old April 16th, 2011, 08:51 AM   #6678
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....
And true that both NY and MA have toll roads, but there aren't that many booths across the state line.
I-95 only has booths on the northbound side in NY, and nothing on the southbound side; and it doesn't have anything on the RI side.
Rt 15 had booths 20+ years ago, but removed after the I-95 tragedy. All the booth areas have been converted in the service areas.
I-84 doesn't have booth on the NY state line, and does have one in the MA side, but it is usually pretty quite.
I-91 is also free from toll booth, too.
....
By remarking that Connecticut politicians and citizens ought to be aware, due to their geography, that there haven't been a rash (understatement) of toll-booth-caused accidents, I wasn't just talking about New York and Massachusetts, but the whole Northeast. Surely most Connecticut drivers have paid plenty of tolls in their day even if they're too young to remember the '83 accident and to have paid tolls in Connecticut. (And the same applies to the argument that E-ZPass is a violation of privacy....)
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Old April 16th, 2011, 11:18 AM   #6679
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It isn't just "not happening all that often," but I don't recall having any after that one particular one occurred. It is plain politic, not scientific and engineering. One of such tragedy is more than enough to touch the politic nerve. If there is a way to avoid it, even if it may sound nonsense, the people in-charge will go for it to avoid oppositions.

And true that both NY and MA have toll roads, but there aren't that many booths across the state line.
I-95 only has booths on the northbound side in NY, and nothing on the southbound side; and it doesn't have anything on the RI side.
Rt 15 had booths 20+ years ago, but removed after the I-95 tragedy. All the booth areas have been converted in the service areas.
I-84 doesn't have booth on the NY state line, and does have one in the MA side, but it is usually pretty quite.
I-91 is also free from toll booth, too.



If the toll system were to implement in all expressways, then certainly some money will go towards the public transport sector; however, if the toll system is going to go the new kind of a BOT-way with new construction, the money is so small it probably won't even be able to self-sustain financially.

The transit funding is still just going to find its own money from taxes, and federal grants.
Well CT has plans to find funding through Tolls....on I-95 and I-91 which could generate alot of $$$. With the Amount CT is trying to do , and Tolls will allow it to speed up that process..... Feds will only fund large scale Rail Projects.....and starter lines , CT will have fund smaller and extensions..... $$$ form that would come form Tolls....
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Old April 16th, 2011, 12:01 PM   #6680
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You make it sound as if there is a concrete plan. Connecticut politics works as slow as molasses on these kinds of things. The nickname of this state is "The Land of Steady Habits". Last time I checked, they were STILL working on the planning arrangements that New Britain-Hartford busway. I knew about that plan since the late nineties, lol. And I doubt the New Haven-Hartford-Springfield commuter rail plan will be done in this decade.

I honestly don't mind paying like a dollar for a toll if I am leaving the state. As a consequence of not having tolls, CT has among the highest gas taxes in the country. Just across the border in Massachusetts where they have tolls all over the place, they pay almost 30 cents on gas less than us.
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