daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old June 26th, 2011, 12:51 AM   #7041
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarneGator View Post
No no, not the picture, but the real practice of putting up "old ##" exit signs. Like I wrote, I've seen them in person, don't care for them, and don't understand the practice. Just curious about people's thoughts or some esoteric traffic engineering data
I live in Pennsylvania. You still see them lots of places. Your previous post is probably right in that people know their own exits, but the "old exit" tabs probably are useful to people who come through a given area occasionally. (If the last time you went where you're going now was six months ago, and your directions referred to the exit number, as opposed to, say, a route, and they've changed the exit number since....) I'm not convinced they still need to be up there now, 11 years after the renumbering (and they aren't everywhere); I just assume no one wants to go to the expense of taking them down, and that the next time signs are redone, they'll be gone.

That said, 376 through Pittsburgh could be worse: until about a year ago the segment west of I-79 was not an Interstate (and had unnumbered exits, I believe) and the segment from 79 t0 279 was part of 279, so there are now actually two old exit numbers for any given exit (at least east of 79): on the piece east of 279 that was always numbered as 376, the exits would have been numbered consecutively from 279, until 2000, then numbered by mileage from 279, from 2000 to 2010, then numbered by mileage from I-80 now. I was in Pittsburgh two years (and one renumbering) ago, and the "old exit" tabs were still there; I hope when they changed exit numbers last year, they didn't put up a second set of "old exit" tabs without taking down the older ones, so that there aren't two "old exits" for each exit now.... If I haven't totally lost you.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old June 26th, 2011, 03:07 AM   #7042
weava
Arch(Struct) Engineer
 
weava's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Missouri/Ozarks/KC
Posts: 1,754
Likes (Received): 1980

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
There is no law in the US against lane hogging, and drivers are permitted to overtake on either side, although slower drivers are encouraged to keep right...
It is law
weava no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2011, 03:51 AM   #7043
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by xzmattzx View Post
I guess I'm getting a little too off-topic, but one sign that aggravates me is "Fines doubled for speeding". How is this not double punishment? Is there a fine for not speeding or something?
"Double punishment"? Double jeopardy - which the Constitution prohibits - would be trying someone twice on the same set of facts. (If you're acquitted of murder, they can't come back a couple of months later with a new jury and try for manslaughter, or for murder again for that matter.) New Jersey has signs at the state lines reading "fines doubled in 65 mph zones - speeding and other violations."

A state has every right to add a line to its statutes reading that "all fines in this section shall be doubled for violations occurring in construction zones," or whatever.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2011, 05:02 AM   #7044
MarneGator
Registered User
 
MarneGator's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 75
Likes (Received): 46

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I'm not convinced they still need to be up there now, 11 years after the renumbering...
What the? That's horrible. I figured those signs were from the year before!
MarneGator no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2011, 05:15 AM   #7045
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Well, on 376, as I said, they could be from last year! But "horrible" seems like an overstatement - they're easy enough to ignore.

Just wait till New York is forced to switch to mileage-based numbering: you'll have them there too.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2011, 05:24 AM   #7046
MarneGator
Registered User
 
MarneGator's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 75
Likes (Received): 46

^ That's what's horrible: from last year or years ago, but still up. I would think they served their purpose a while back!
I may not drive all that often, living in the city, but I know it'll happen so I can't wait to see the City and State of New York get the miles wrong, reseting to 0 when entering and leaving the city! Anyway, thanks for the little history lesson above!
MarneGator no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 26th, 2011, 03:06 PM   #7047
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,428
Likes (Received): 890

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
There is no law in the US against lane hogging, and drivers are permitted to overtake on either side, although slower drivers are encouraged to keep right...
There is no such law in the UK either, but they can get you for dangerous driving, but generally won't, although its rare outside London for people to do it, but in London, including the M25...
DanielFigFoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2011, 07:46 AM   #7048
Alex Von Königsberg
Registered User
 
Alex Von Königsberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 1,053
Likes (Received): 11

Quote:
Originally Posted by LtBk View Post
Like who?
Actually, in WA they do enforce them. I knew two people who were fined because they were hogging the left lane on I-90 (2x2, rural area, Eastern WA). But then again, in WA people typically do not block left lanes to begin with.
__________________
Go Cougs!
Alex Von Königsberg no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 27th, 2011, 09:28 AM   #7049
VoltAmps
Registered User
 
VoltAmps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 171
Likes (Received): 49

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fargo Wolf View Post
It's double the regular fine of the jurisdiction you are in at the time of the offense. Let's say you commit a moving violation in a work zone, and the fine is $125 if it had occurred outside of said work zone, in say Washington State, just for sake of discussion, then the fine would be $250.

The reason fines double in work zones, is because of the risk to construction crews in said zones. They may be working right next to moving traffic, which could, depending on the work being carried out and zone setup, be carrying traffic moving at up to 80 km/h (55MPH). I speak from personal experience too. In theory, it's supposed to drive home the message that committing moving violations in a work zone, puts said workers at an increased risk of injury and/or death.
The road signs for safety in workzones in BC are absolutely ridiculous. They don't drive the point home at all. Some sappy murals of a toddler playing with a toy truck saying "My daddy works here, please slow down". How much taxpayer money did the government spend on these works of art A simple diamond road sign saying "Workers ahead, give them a brake" (get it), would suffice. The latter signs are used in WA state.
VoltAmps no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2011, 11:32 AM   #7050
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
There is no such law in the UK either, but they can get you for dangerous driving, but generally won't, although its rare outside London for people to do it, but in London, including the M25...
Overtaking on the right - undertaking - is illegal in the UK. Therefor drivers are required to keep left unless overtaking. Unfortunately a lot of people don't know this and will keep on doing 70 mph in the middle or outside lanes. They are paying road tax, so they want ALL the road!

Seeing a driver on the 4-lane motorway of the M25 near Leatherhead on lane 3 or 4 with no traffic in lane 1 or 2 fills me with rage....
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2011, 11:40 AM   #7051
geogregor
Registered User
 
geogregor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London
Posts: 15,487
Likes (Received): 19119

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Seeing a driver on the 4-lane motorway of the M25 near Leatherhead on lane 3 or 4 with no traffic in lane 1 or 2 fills me with rage....
It must be rare sight. M25 on that stretch is often full on all lanes
geogregor no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2011, 11:47 AM   #7052
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
It must be rare sight. M25 on that stretch is often full on all lanes
Not at 3am. And even in the day time, sometimes the two inside lanes are empty with lane 3 and 4 practically congested. A typical British way of lane discipline. There isn't any, and in the professional driving world, Britain is well known for that....
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2011, 01:25 PM   #7053
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,540

Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Overtaking on the right - undertaking - is illegal in the UK. Therefor drivers are required to keep left unless overtaking.
No it's not illegal:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Highway Code
Lane discipline
264
You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking. You MUST NOT drive on the hard shoulder except in an emergency or if directed to do so by the police, HA traffic officers in uniform or by signs.
...
268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
"MUST"/"MUST NOT" means a direction that not following it is illegal, whereas "should"/"should not"/"do not" kind of language means that you aren't following the rules of the road ("should not" being less strong than "do not"), but not committing an explicit legal offence by doing so.

You could get done for careless driving, etc (though not normally if you don't have an accident), and it will certainly affect your insurance matters and who's at fault if an accident occurs. But that's about it - the police might want to set you right about something if you are in the bounds of careless driving while doing what you shouldn't, but I reckon that happens so rarely that it is of little consequence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Not at 3am. And even in the day time, sometimes the two inside lanes are empty with lane 3 and 4 practically congested. A typical British way of lane discipline. There isn't any, and in the professional driving world, Britain is well known for that....
Lane 1 and 2 tend to be avoided by cars on motorways (though lane 2 less so) as speed limited lorries do elephant racing in them, where one which is limited to 90km/h is overtaking one limited to 89km/h and neither will slow down from going at the fastest speed they can, meaning a long drawn-out overtake. Lorries are also banned from lane 3, so even at 3am, you know that you aren't going to suddenly meet a vehicle that has a speed limit 10mph lower than yours and also can't legally meet that, so is driving at least 20% slower than you.

Last edited by sotonsi; June 28th, 2011 at 01:33 PM.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2011, 02:13 PM   #7054
Road_UK
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Mayrhofen AT, Sneek NL, Bromley UK
Posts: 5,855
Likes (Received): 1599

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
No it's not illegal:
"MUST"/"MUST NOT" means a direction that not following it is illegal, whereas "should"/"should not"/"do not" kind of language means that you aren't following the rules of the road ("should not" being less strong than "do not"), but not committing an explicit legal offence by doing so.

You could get done for careless driving, etc (though not normally if you don't have an accident), and it will certainly affect your insurance matters and who's at fault if an accident occurs. But that's about it - the police might want to set you right about something if you are in the bounds of careless driving while doing what you shouldn't, but I reckon that happens so rarely that it is of little consequence.
Lane 1 and 2 tend to be avoided by cars on motorways (though lane 2 less so) as speed limited lorries do elephant racing in them, where one which is limited to 90km/h is overtaking one limited to 89km/h and neither will slow down from going at the fastest speed they can, meaning a long drawn-out overtake. Lorries are also banned from lane 3, so even at 3am, you know that you aren't going to suddenly meet a vehicle that has a speed limit 10mph lower than yours and also can't legally meet that, so is driving at least 20% slower than you.
You are getting too technical. Fact of the matter is that drivers should keep in lane 1 unless overtaking. It's not rocket science.
Road_UK no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 28th, 2011, 03:10 PM   #7055
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,540

The semantics are important - drivers should keep left unless overtaking, but it is not illegal to not do so. It's even more important, given that this is the conversation:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
There is no law in the US against lane hogging, and drivers are permitted to overtake on either side, although slower drivers are encouraged to keep right...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
There is no such law in the UK either, but they can get you for dangerous driving, but generally won't, although its rare outside London for people to do it, but in London, including the M25...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Overtaking on the right - undertaking - is illegal in the UK. Therefor drivers are required to keep left unless overtaking.
So you made a post on the technicalities of UK law as you felt that Daniel was wrong in saying it's only discouraged and that it is not illegal (ie that there's a difference between 'should' and 'MUST'). I say something similar to Daniel, backing it up with the Highway Code, and you say that there's no difference between the two words - make your mind up!

'Undertaking' is a case of not moving right to overtake, but keeping or (worse) moving left - thus, even if it was illegal, wouldn't imply that it's illegal "keep left unless overtaking", only "move right to overtake" - at best it implies the "unless overtaking" bit.

Also note how it tells people "do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake". - I'd argue that constantly flitting between lanes 1 and 2, or 2 and 3, overtaking a couple of vehicles and pulling back in for a minute or less before repeating the process counts here - ie that it's legitimate - and encouraged - not to move back left if you are going to have move back out to overtake something up ahead (lets say less than 1km, maybe up to a mile). There's certainly some interpretative vagueness here.

The Highway Code also encourages passing on the left if the lane on the right is moving slower in congested conditions.

In summary, the US's legal situation (depending on state) is far more to your cup of tea than the UK's - where the rules of the road, but not the law of the Crown, agree with you sometimes (and sometimes the rules of the road disagree with you).

It's not rocket science, but it's not the simplistic toddler version you have either.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2011, 07:36 PM   #7056
mgk920
Nonhyphenated-American
 
mgk920's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI USA
Posts: 2,583
Likes (Received): 68

This was just posted in another forvm, a *SWEET* ride on westbound I-80 from downtown Reno, NV to Truckee, CA, including a quick stop at the 'California customs' station at Truckee.



Enjoy!



Mike
mgk920 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2011, 09:02 PM   #7057
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,525
Likes (Received): 21227

It is noticeable how the pavement degrades once one enters in CA. I experienced once a similar "shock", but while actually driving, on I-70, exiting Utah and entering Colorado.

Are US States allowed to operate catch-all checkpoints? I though that was illegal. And it is weird anyway.
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 29th, 2011, 09:25 PM   #7058
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,568
Likes (Received): 19354

That's an agricultural inspection station. They have something similar in Australia.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2011, 05:08 AM   #7059
Rail Claimore
Registered User
 
Rail Claimore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 1,152
Likes (Received): 14

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
It is noticeable how the pavement degrades once one enters in CA. I experienced once a similar "shock", but while actually driving, on I-70, exiting Utah and entering Colorado.

Are US States allowed to operate catch-all checkpoints? I though that was illegal. And it is weird anyway.
California has agricultural inspection stations and is allowed to do so because its agro-ecosystem is separate from the rest of the US.
Rail Claimore no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 30th, 2011, 07:00 AM   #7060
TheAnalyst
Havok
 
TheAnalyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 98
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rail Claimore View Post
California has agricultural inspection stations and is allowed to do so because its agro-ecosystem is separate from the rest of the US.
They like to separate themselves from the rest of the country in other areas too.
TheAnalyst no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
america, california, highway, highways, interstate, los angeles, united states, urban

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 03:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium