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Old November 17th, 2011, 10:18 AM   #7601
ChrisZwolle
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Upward arrows are most certainly not European "standard". It varies by country, in fact I think most countries have downward arrows.
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Old November 17th, 2011, 10:24 AM   #7602
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
The newest update to the USA's federal Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices ('MUTCD') requires that all new and replacement overhead big green signs use European-style up-pointing arrows, one per lane. Some have appeared this past summer on US 41 here in the Appleton, WI area.

Mike
I like the down-arrows a lot better. I believe California started the trend.
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Old November 21st, 2011, 10:19 PM   #7603
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
The newest update to the USA's federal Manual of Uniform Traffic Control Devices ('MUTCD') requires that all new and replacement overhead big green signs use European-style up-pointing arrows, one per lane. Some have appeared this past summer on US 41 here in the Appleton, WI area.

Mike
The up-pointing arrow signs replaced the diagrammatic signs that were part of previous editions of the MUTCD. The new signs are only supposed to be used where there is a multi-lane exit including an option lane. One of the biggest gripes I have with this type of signage is the excessive height of the new signs (see this post on the AARoads forums) and here are a few drawings I created for that post...



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Old November 22nd, 2011, 12:07 PM   #7604
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Too many EXIT ONLY tabs, lol!
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 12:09 PM   #7605
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Why use the "exit only" labels at all? Not many other countries (if any) consider this necessary.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 12:26 PM   #7606
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These "exit only" labels can be very useful in situations where the traffic is near congestion. You simply want to have enough time to choose appropriate lane.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 05:26 PM   #7607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Why use the "exit only" labels at all? Not many other countries (if any) consider this necessary.
They may be obligatory for lanes that are exiting, even though on this particular sign they're superfluous. Just guessing; haven't memorized the MUTCD. :-)

I don't like the spacing, though. It looks like six of the same item rather than three.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 08:58 PM   #7608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
They may be obligatory for lanes that are exiting, even though on this particular sign they're superfluous. Just guessing; haven't memorized the MUTCD. :-)

I don't like the spacing, though. It looks like six of the same item rather than three.
Yeah, I may have gone a little overboard with the "EXIT" and "ONLY" plaques on the I-5/I-805 sign.

The only reason why I created that sign was to illustrate how absolutely huge sign panels can get when using the arrow-per-lane signs. In the case of the I-5/I-805 sign it's dimensions are approximately 86.5 feet wide by 16.5 feet high for a total area of over 1400 square feet! To put things in perspective, the maximum overhead guide sign height in California is 120 inches or 10 feet.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 09:03 PM   #7609
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The main purpose of a guide sign is to give information to motorists, not to comply with sign size standards. If it needs to be big to give the right information, than it just has to be.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 09:16 PM   #7610
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Originally Posted by myosh_tino View Post
Yeah, I may have gone a little overboard with the "EXIT" and "ONLY" plaques on the I-5/I-805 sign. ....

Ah, sorry! I thought that was a real sign you were reproducing.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 09:26 PM   #7611
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The upward arrows in the U.S. are problematic because they are long. There is no reason for long arrows for all lanes because it reduces the space for destinations above them. The large road number shield also reduce space.

I prefer this:
image hosted on flickr

A2 Utrecht-z-3 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

or this
image hosted on flickr

IMG_5058 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

Note that the different road marking for the exit lane erases the need for the "exit only" tab.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 09:26 PM   #7612
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cool thread. love those american highways.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 09:43 PM   #7613
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The upward arrows in the U.S. are problematic because they are long. There is no reason for long arrows for all lanes because it reduces the space for destinations above them. The large road number shield also reduce space....
I don't like the long upward arrows (haven't seen many, though).

This, I like: [Sorry, bad link, apparently....]

As for space for destinations, well you know we have issues with destinations.... But don't touch our shields!

I'm sure I've already said that Dutch signage may be the best in Europe.

Off topic, happened on this while searching for the image above - now this is a nice picture: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2371/...dfc7ac7a12.jpg
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Last edited by Penn's Woods; November 22nd, 2011 at 09:50 PM.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 09:47 PM   #7614
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
But don't touch our shields!
The Interstate shields are definitely most aesthetic road number shields used in the world. But they are very large. They work well on trailblazers and small textual signs, but not so much with road layout guide signs, especially on locations where more control cities than one are needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I know of no other country that uses such sign schemes. They are legible with a small number of lanes, but not on roadways with 5 or 6 lanes.

This type of auxiliary signs are better in providing information about lane configurations at traffic signals or complex freeway situations.
image hosted on flickr

A2-Abcoude-6 by Chriszwolle, on Flickr

(they are on both sides of the roadway)
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 10:00 PM   #7615
Penn's Woods
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Wait, you were able to see the image? (of the 76/676 fork) When I clicked on it I kept getting a 403 error....
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AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 10:04 PM   #7616
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I'm getting a 403 error too...
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 10:05 PM   #7617
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You need to copy the link and open it in another browser tab. AAroads doesn't allow hotlinking.
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Old November 22nd, 2011, 10:05 PM   #7618
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Quote:
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cool thread. love those american highways.
You know that the pics from above your post were from the A2 in The Netherlands?
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Old November 23rd, 2011, 02:58 AM   #7619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
The main purpose of a guide sign is to give information to motorists, not to comply with sign size standards. If it needs to be big to give the right information, than it just has to be.
Oh really? Take a look at the two drawings below. The first is the same arrow-per-lane monstrosity I posted earlier. Below it is how it might be signed pre-2009 MUTCD.





I would argue that the arrow-per-lane sign doesn't convey information any better than the sign below it and would cost more due to the increased sign panel height. In these times of lean budgets, if the two sign styles convey information about the same, then wouldn't it make sense financially to go with a less expensive design?
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Old November 23rd, 2011, 03:29 AM   #7620
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Looking at the total length of the arrow, the pointer is actually too thin. It would have been better widened similar to that of the pre-2009 pointer. That way, a driver could easily distinguish it from a distance. It would also be good if they re-designed these signs on the approach to any exit as 1000m, etc. Having a countdown avoids these sudden lane changes that cause so many pile-ups because of bad decisions.
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