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Old December 20th, 2013, 08:34 PM   #9341
ChrisZwolle
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Traffic volumes only tell a part of the story. It's also important to note the volume of trucks, a 60,000 AADT 4-lane freeway can have a sluggish traffic flow if there is a high truck share.

Another considering is cost vs benefit. Urban freeways are often expensive to widen, so they won't go forward with it unless there is significant congestion. At the same time rural widenings are usually cheap, so the cost is not a huge factor in decision making as it is with urban/suburban projects. Most of I-94 has a wide median, so they don't need to acquire a lot of new right-of-way.
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Old December 21st, 2013, 11:28 AM   #9342
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Directional distribution is important, too. I've seen freeways in Atlanta that experienced severe rush hour backups with as little as 10,000 vehicles per day, even with low truck volumes, because the directional split was so extreme.

Also, it may be that the segment of I-94 in question requires pavement reconstruction, and adding a lane in each direction would likely make construction phasing easier. I'm just guessing about that, though.
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Old December 21st, 2013, 12:43 PM   #9343
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There is no road maintenance in southern states
North-eastern freeways look better. This difference doesn't exist in the EU member states
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Old December 21st, 2013, 05:52 PM   #9344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILTarantino View Post
There is no road maintenance in southern states
North-eastern freeways look better. This difference doesn't exist in the EU member states
Are you serious? I would rather say that many southern states have excelent modern roads while the roads in the NE region are all aging and crumbling.
North Carolina or Georgia or Florida roads are much better than Pennsylwania or New York ones.
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Old December 21st, 2013, 07:12 PM   #9345
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Are you serious? I would rather say that many southern states have excelent modern roads while the roads in the NE region are all aging and crumbling.
North Carolina or Georgia or Florida roads are much better than Pennsylwania or New York ones
due to the freeze/thaw cycles. Roads in the south need less maintenance while the northern states need to allocate more funds toward road maintenance.
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Old December 21st, 2013, 08:12 PM   #9346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILTarantino View Post
There is no road maintenance in southern states
North-eastern freeways look better. This difference doesn't exist in the EU member states
Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Are you serious? I would rather say that many southern states have excelent modern roads while the roads in the NE region are all aging and crumbling.
North Carolina or Georgia or Florida roads are much better than Pennsylwania or New York ones.
Again with the European "experts" on America....

(And - while I admit to not being an expert on European roads, just from what I've seen and read here, the notion that such differences don't exist in the EU would attract considerable disagreement from Europeans.)
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Old December 21st, 2013, 08:59 PM   #9347
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILTarantino View Post
There is no road maintenance in southern states
North-eastern freeways look better. This difference doesn't exist in the EU member states
I wish... Some examples of almost no maintenance in my Latvia:
2x2 A2/E77 in Garkalne - 19 486 cars/day
2x2 A6/E262 in Līksna - 2 971 cars/day
1x1 A8/E77 in Vircava - 3 128 cars/day
1x1 A2/E77 in Ape - 874 cars/day (the least used A road in the country)

But the good condition roads are maintained accordingly:
3x3 A10/E22 in Babīte - 39 094 cars/day
2x2 A8/E77 in Dalbe - 13 864 cars/day
1x1 A1/E67 in Ādaži - 18 894 cars/day
1x2 A12/E22 in Zilupe - 1 816 cars/day

A map showing the condition of main roads
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Old December 21st, 2013, 11:51 PM   #9348
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A8, near Yuma


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Old December 22nd, 2013, 05:20 PM   #9349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
A8, near Yuma
Is that Autobahn, Autoroute, Autopista, Autostrada, Autoput, or Autoschnellwegen?
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 05:49 PM   #9350
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I-8, near Yuma

Source
FTFY.
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 09:31 PM   #9351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILTarantino View Post
There is no road maintenance in southern states
North-eastern freeways look better. This difference doesn't exist in the EU member states
Are you serious? You probably have never even been to the US

I've travelled Europe and there is no continuity between European countries. But you can find third world goat trails in every EU country unlike the US
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 09:38 PM   #9352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom 958 View Post
Is that Autobahn, Autoroute, Autopista, Autostrada, Autoput, or Autoschnellwegen?
Sorry, that was a slip :p
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Old December 22nd, 2013, 09:44 PM   #9353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Are you serious? I would rather say that many southern states have excelent modern roads while the roads in the NE region are all aging and crumbling.
North Carolina or Georgia or Florida roads are much better than Pennsylwania or New York ones.
Can't speak for northern rural freeways outside of Maryland, but as far as urban freeways go, the road quality in the South wins and it's not even close.

Somebody mentioned that the freeze/thaw cycles up north contribute to it, and I would say that that's mostly true.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 01:51 AM   #9354
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 02:00 AM   #9355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Again with the European "experts" on America....

(And - while I admit to not being an expert on European roads, just from what I've seen and read here, the notion that such differences don't exist in the EU would attract considerable disagreement from Europeans.)
I never said there are no differences in Europe. In fact they are much bigger than in the US.

I just disagreed with ILTarantino statement about roads in the south being less maintained than in the NE stares.

From my experience (and I have visited EVERY of the lower 48 states) roads in the south have largely batter standard than in the NE. Of course there always will be some exceptions but it is general trend.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 07:22 PM   #9356
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Traffic volumes only tell a part of the story. It's also important to note the volume of trucks, a 60,000 AADT 4-lane freeway can have a sluggish traffic flow if there is a high truck share.
Great point on the trucks. Unfortunately the AADT numbers I've found don't break out by vehicle type.

They also don't break out by routine peaks. One interstate by us indicates AADT of 61,000 but it only gets clogged on Friday evenings when everyone is heading out of the city for the weekend, otherwise it flows pretty good.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 07:33 PM   #9357
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Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
I don't know where they got the data from, but I have a totally different view of widenings over here. Germany sometimes adds a lane when there's 55.000 vehicles per day. In NL we have stretches without future plans with over 100.000 vehicles per day on 4 lanes. The 85.000 mentioned of Germany seems to be more appropriate for The Netherlands.
Thanks for this. I wonder if some of the difference is urban/rural? The earlier higher numbers in Germany would make sense in rural areas where traffic is traveling quite a bit faster and thus each lane should be able to handle a much higher AADT. Of the cities I visit regularly Rotterdam does seem like one of the worst for congestion.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 07:45 PM   #9358
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
The amount of lane hoggers in the Netherlands are relatively low compared to Germany, Belgium, Italy and the UK.
All, and the absolute worst, of these are vastly better than anywhere in the U.S. though. For several years I commuted to Brussels on a somewhat regular basis. I always considered Belgian drivers about the worst in Europe, but coming back to the U.S. was always horribly frustrating due to left lane blockers, people merging on to freeways going 40mph, weaving in and out of traffic, and even fewer using blinkers here than in Belgium. This was also what sparked my interest in this issue.

Germany, France, NL, Italy, and even Belgium are heaven to drive compared to our U.S. highways. But the bigger issue, for me, is that EU motorways seem to be far more efficient (handle more cars per lane without clogging and allow drivers to get where they're going faster) and much safer (drivers on U.S. interstates kill about 3 or 4 times as many people, per mile driven, than drivers on EU motorways). Which keeps leaving me with the questions of how can our interstates and highways and roads and streets be improved?
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 09:44 PM   #9359
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Which keeps leaving me with the questions of how can our interstates and highways and roads and streets be improved
institute the same penalty system as Europe for bad driving.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 09:49 PM   #9360
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Originally Posted by jsfox View Post
All, and the absolute worst, of these are vastly better than anywhere in the U.S. though. For several years I commuted to Brussels on a somewhat regular basis. I always considered Belgian drivers about the worst in Europe, but coming back to the U.S. was always horribly frustrating due to left lane blockers, people merging on to freeways going 40mph, weaving in and out of traffic, and even fewer using blinkers here than in Belgium. This was also what sparked my interest in this issue.

Germany, France, NL, Italy, and even Belgium are heaven to drive compared to our U.S. highways. But the bigger issue, for me, is that EU motorways seem to be far more efficient (handle more cars per lane without clogging and allow drivers to get where they're going faster) and much safer (drivers on U.S. interstates kill about 3 or 4 times as many people, per mile driven, than drivers on EU motorways). Which keeps leaving me with the questions of how can our interstates and highways and roads and streets be improved?
There are quite a few countries in the EU that have a higher fatality rate per mile driven than the USA. These include:
  1. Belgium
  2. Bulgaria
  3. Croatia
  4. Cyprus
  5. Czech Republic
  6. Estonia
  7. Greece
  8. Latvia
  9. Lithuania
  10. Romania
  11. Slovenia
  12. Portugal (same fatality rate as the USA)
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