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Old December 23rd, 2013, 10:45 PM   #9361
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Originally Posted by Jschmuck View Post
institute the same penalty system as Europe for bad driving.
I think that might help, but only minimally. That wouldn't change lane blocking, slow merging, or weaving in and out of traffic (unless high enough speed to garner a reckless driving charge). In most places that wouldn't change people talking on their phones or fixing their hair while they drive.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 10:50 PM   #9362
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institute the same penalty system as Europe for bad driving.
What penalty system?
You mean the points on your license? Not every country in Europe has those points. In The Netherlands for example it's only for the first 5 years that you have a drivers license. After that, no points.
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Old December 23rd, 2013, 10:50 PM   #9363
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There are quite a few countries in the EU that have a higher fatality rate per mile driven than the USA.
Yes, but US overall is considerably more dangerous than EU overall (and particularly compared to northern EU). Many of those you mentioned are also still somewhat third world nations. We should be comparing ourselves to the best and trying to achieve that, not sitting fat, dumb, and happy that there are some countries worse than us.
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Old December 24th, 2013, 01:39 AM   #9364
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I concede that point. I wonder what is causing the disparity between the USA when compared to countries like Great Britain/Denmark/Germany.
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Old December 24th, 2013, 03:33 AM   #9365
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I never said there are no differences in Europe....
The other guy did. :-)
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Old December 24th, 2013, 03:38 AM   #9366
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Originally Posted by jsfox View Post
Yes, but US overall is considerably more dangerous than EU overall (and particularly compared to northern EU). Many of those you mentioned are also still somewhat third world nations. We should be comparing ourselves to the best and trying to achieve that, not sitting fat, dumb, and happy that there are some countries worse than us.
Three or four times more fatalities per mile driven? Can you please cite a source for that?

EDIT: Because the last time I looked into this, I found this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate

And I shudder to think what'll happen when, um, people from certain parts of Europe visit this thread and see the "third world" bit.
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Last edited by Penn's Woods; December 24th, 2013 at 03:47 AM.
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Old December 24th, 2013, 03:40 AM   #9367
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And I shudder to think what'll happen when, um, people from certain parts of Europe visit this thread and see the "third world" bit.
Especially with Belgium in that list
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Old December 30th, 2013, 09:37 AM   #9368
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There are no third world countries in Europe.
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Old December 30th, 2013, 09:44 AM   #9369
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Are you serious? I would rather say that many southern states have excelent modern roads while the roads in the NE region are all aging and crumbling.
North Carolina or Georgia or Florida roads are much better than Pennsylwania or New York ones.
I completely agree with that.
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Old December 30th, 2013, 10:14 AM   #9370
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Are you serious? I would rather say that many southern states have excelent modern roads while the roads in the NE region are all aging and crumbling.
North Carolina or Georgia or Florida roads are much better than Pennsylwania or New York ones.
Lack of harsh winters and less traffic allow for the roads to be "better" or smoother and less potholes. Fact is there are roads in Florida that haven't been paved in 30 years, the infrastructure is behind in every city in Florida. In North Carolina the roads are also very old and outdated generally, except for new or upgraded roads in higher growth areas. Georgia has pretty poor roads given the climate, I-16 is one of the worst interstates I've driven and even I-75 has bumpy sections with potholes, not to mention some of the overpasses are so old they have potholes and poor patches as well. Try driving these roads in a car with stiff suspension, its not fun lol. The southern states do generally neglect maintenance but the northern states are always behind on their maintenance, just a lot of to keep up with and one bad winter turns the roads into what we have back in Poland lol.
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Old December 30th, 2013, 10:43 AM   #9371
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There are no third world countries in Europe.
Not yet.
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Old December 30th, 2013, 05:47 PM   #9372
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Not yet.
You are one grumpy bunny, in every thread
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Old December 30th, 2013, 07:53 PM   #9373
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Fact is there are roads in Florida that haven't been paved in 30 years, the infrastructure is behind in every city in Florida.
I was just in Florida in almost every large/coastal city (in Clearwater too) and I noticed the roads in Florida are very smooth, much better than California. Of course there were bad streets, but the majority of the roads were really nice. I have been to a lot of states and I think Florida and Arizona have the best roads in the US.
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Old December 30th, 2013, 08:48 PM   #9374
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Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl View Post
and one bad winter turns the roads into what we have back in Poland lol.
And what exactly do we have back in Poland? Sure, there are some bad stretches, but overall I'd say the quality of the Polish highways in 2013 is far superior to anything I've driven in the USA with has a similar climate...
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Old December 30th, 2013, 09:54 PM   #9375
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The quality of asphalt used seems to me to have a lot to do with how long a road surface will last.

I say this because about 15 years ago, main roads in the UK used to be surfaced with a material called hot rolled asphalt HRA). In the UK this is a 40mm layer of very fine asphalt with large chippings rolled into the surface when hot to create a surface that has a good texture. This type of surface is durable with the aggregate helping to lock the surface together.

Since then a lot of roads are resurfaced with a material called stone mastic asphalt (SMA) which creates a very smooth and low noise surface. There are porous versions to surpress spray but most material seems to do the opposite and generate much more spray than HRA. Generally its a much finer stone aggregate bound together in a 14mm layer.

In a UK climate, SMA does not wear well and within a couple of years surfaces will crack if there is any flexing, and develop potholes, usually because freeze-thaw cycles during winter will eat into the surface and even cause the whole surface layer to delaminate from the base layer.

In my opinion, SMA is cheap crap and its a false economy. The Highways Agency have used it to resurface many stretches of trunk road and motorway in the UK and much of it is lucky to see 5 years in heavy service before potholes and cracks need to be filled. HRA, on the other hand, can last up to 20 years. The Highways Agency still for some reason insist on SMA when resurfacing. A major route, near where I used to live, called the A19 is managed on behalf of the Highways Agency by a private company under a 30-year concession and after using SMA so many times on resurfacing and patching the heaviest used stretches several have gone back to using HRA because it is more durable.

http://goo.gl/maps/dNXT6 - A19 southbound, surfaced with HRA - notice the texture due to the rolled in chippings.

http://goo.gl/maps/76GDI - A1(M)/M1 diverge surfaced with SMA with a lot of surface patching. Look at lane 1 (on the left lol!) to see how bad this is.

I've never seen HRA used in the US, or anywhere else outside the UK or Ireland. It is a far better surfacing material for areas that suffer a lot of freeze-thaw cycles.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 03:40 AM   #9376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl View Post
Lack of harsh winters and less traffic allow for the roads to be "better" or smoother and less potholes. Fact is there are roads in Florida that haven't been paved in 30 years, the infrastructure is behind in every city in Florida. In North Carolina the roads are also very old and outdated generally, except for new or upgraded roads in higher growth areas. Georgia has pretty poor roads given the climate, I-16 is one of the worst interstates I've driven and even I-75 has bumpy sections with potholes, not to mention some of the overpasses are so old they have potholes and poor patches as well. Try driving these roads in a car with stiff suspension, its not fun lol. The southern states do generally neglect maintenance but the northern states are always behind on their maintenance, just a lot of to keep up with and one bad winter turns the roads into what we have back in Poland lol.
Of course harsher climate doesn't help the northern states but after driving extensively across the US I'll stick to my opinion that southern states have better maintained roads.
Part of it is of course due to the fact that they require less maintenance without harsh winters but in general there is way more road investment is states like Texas, Utah, Carolinas or Arizona than in, let say, Pennsylvania or New York State.

Of course every state and region will have some pretty bad as well as excellent stretches but I'm talking about overall impression.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 06:36 PM   #9377
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Here's a report that studied the roadway quality in urban areas in 2013;

http://www.tripnet.org/docs/Urban_Ro...t_Oct_2013.pdf

The worst urban roads are in California and the Northeast. The only city in the south listed is New Orleans. Oklahoma seems to be an outlier of the prairie states, both Oklahoma City and Tulsa are listed.
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Old December 31st, 2013, 11:31 PM   #9378
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Not yet.
Moldova...
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Old January 1st, 2014, 07:38 AM   #9379
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Here's a report that studied the roadway quality in urban areas in 2013;

http://www.tripnet.org/docs/Urban_Ro...t_Oct_2013.pdf

The worst urban roads are in California and the Northeast. The only city in the south listed is New Orleans. Oklahoma seems to be an outlier of the prairie states, both Oklahoma City and Tulsa are listed.
The worst urban road being in CA seems legit. I was driving on the 60 freeway near Downtown Los Angeles and the quality of the road is terrible. It's so rough and sloppy and unmaintained.
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Old January 1st, 2014, 04:16 PM   #9380
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California is a funny state to drive through. Some of their highway infrastructure is some of the best in the US. There are few interchanges that are as impressive as the stack between the Century and Harbor Freeway's in Southcentral LA, but then some of their roads are pretty aweful.

California almost never resurfaces anything, and while their road surfaces don't deteriorate much due to their climate, some of their concrete highways can feel like real patchwork. Going further, California has an excellent concrete retexturing program, but when they pour new concrete roads, they often aren't all that smooth.
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