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Old October 8th, 2015, 11:28 PM   #10861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokiboy View Post
I'm thinking a large (three lane) round-about could avoid some of the overpasses.
A three-lane roundabout instead of a fully grade-separated interchange with its frontage road system on another level. I'm sure that'll do wonders for safety and traffic flow
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Old October 8th, 2015, 11:44 PM   #10862
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I am just a lay-person, but that seems like an awful lot of land used for an interchange. And I meant a raised round-about that can be used instead of the four cloverleafs.
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Old October 8th, 2015, 11:52 PM   #10863
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The price of that land is apparently lower than the cost for constructing a floating roundabout.
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Old October 9th, 2015, 01:56 AM   #10864
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokiboy View Post
I am just a lay-person, but that seems like an awful lot of land used for an interchange. And I meant a raised round-about that can be used instead of the four cloverleafs.
while a conventional 5-level stack could be built, I think the reason it has not been done is because of how tight the single family neighborhood to the right of the photo would be to any flyover going from East to Southbound
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Old October 9th, 2015, 02:12 AM   #10865
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smokiboy View Post
I am just a lay-person, but that seems like an awful lot of land used for an interchange. And I meant a raised round-about that can be used instead of the four cloverleafs.
Which'd have way less capacity than what you're seeing right now. That frontage road intersection on the second level is pretty much a 'three-lane roundabout' in itself, capacity-wise. Add the turning lanes on the cloverleaf in the mix and you've got a much more varied picture.

Also it's a very tight cloverleaf, not any bigger in its footprint than the nearby High Five interchange. Is it an optimal solution? No, but like rantanamo said, a thorough rebuild would be very problematic.

I can appreciate that you're a layperson, however, some of the stuff you're thinking fly in the face of basic traffic engineering
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Old October 9th, 2015, 02:51 AM   #10866
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It looks strange how they put the frontage roads on those viaducts
I almost wonder if they were thinking in some years, put directional ramps over and then use the area of the loops for extra subcollector lanes
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Old October 9th, 2015, 06:56 AM   #10867
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It looks strange how they put the frontage roads on those viaducts
I almost wonder if they were thinking in some years, put directional ramps over and then use the area of the loops for extra subcollector lanes
Its hard to see from that angle, but the Dallas North Tollway corridor is very narrow, so they pretty much had to do that if they wanted to continue the frontage roads through the interchange.

Here's a view looking south(the photo we're discussing faces east). You can see how much more narrow the corridor is in comparison to the I-635 corridor.


Hi-res : https://dfwfreeways.blob.core.window..._2729x1714.png
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Old October 9th, 2015, 03:18 PM   #10868
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Cloverleafs, especially those with a 35 - 40 mph design speed, requires much more land than a stack interchange. These loop ramps are actually pretty tight. The average Dutch loop ramp has a 60% larger radius.

I think this cloverleaf interchange is a legacy issue. The Dallas North Tollway ended at I-635 for a long time. Apparently these loop ramps do not carry a whole lot of traffic. There are three north-south corridors within 7 miles, I-35E, DNT and US 75. I suppose there isn't a whole lot of traffic that turns off here, otherwise they likely would've been replaced by direct connectors. Maybe they don't want to make it too attractive for people using the I-35E and US 75 corridors to switch to the DNT for the last leg into Dallas.
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Old October 9th, 2015, 09:44 PM   #10869
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A visualization of Fort Worth's ongoing rebuild of I-35W


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V44G_-KBFy4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Q2uO95wjU8
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Old October 9th, 2015, 11:24 PM   #10870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Cloverleafs, especially those with a 35 - 40 mph design speed, requires much more land than a stack interchange. These loop ramps are actually pretty tight. The average Dutch loop ramp has a 60% larger radius.

I think this cloverleaf interchange is a legacy issue. The Dallas North Tollway ended at I-635 for a long time. Apparently these loop ramps do not carry a whole lot of traffic. There are three north-south corridors within 7 miles, I-35E, DNT and US 75. I suppose there isn't a whole lot of traffic that turns off here, otherwise they likely would've been replaced by direct connectors. Maybe they don't want to make it too attractive for people using the I-35E and US 75 corridors to switch to the DNT for the last leg into Dallas.
What I'm referring to with regard to space is the narrow nature of the corridor south of the interchange. Any flyovers would essentially have to be built over the existing tollway. I'm guessing this is a resident issue. That's a pretty high priced neighborhood, and they were on the news several times complaining about the construction of I-635. No way they allow a flyover that doesn't have to somehow cantilever over the tollway. My commute was 90% I-635 from west of I-35E to east of US 75. Those ramps were often full and at a standstill and causing backup traffic. You probably have the same land issue with the Galleria in the northeast quadrant. Everything is so tight to that corridor, the ramps from west-north would have to essentially do the same cantilever
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Old October 10th, 2015, 06:50 AM   #10871
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I wouldn't be surprised if that entire interchange is totally redone eventually. Cloverleafs are generally outdated.
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Old October 10th, 2015, 09:24 AM   #10872
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I wouldn't be surprised if that entire interchange is totally redone eventually. Cloverleafs are generally outdated.
see the previous posts. Lots of NIMBY action at that intersection. It would be really costly because of some unique engineering challenges.
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Old October 10th, 2015, 10:20 PM   #10873
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Old October 11th, 2015, 01:15 AM   #10874
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Captions, please.
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Old October 11th, 2015, 02:38 AM   #10875
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I read that TxDOT is in serious financial disarray, having taking up too much debt with shady accounting practices, and overly optmistic assumptions about economic growth and thus toll revenue.
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Old October 11th, 2015, 04:36 AM   #10876
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The Horseshoe Project has already been financed. As for TxDOT, that is an issue they need to work out. But as for this project, it is already financed.
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Old October 11th, 2015, 11:04 AM   #10877
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Captions, please.
It is the I-30 / I-35E reconstruction in Dallas, TX. Also known as the Horseshoe Project (previously Project Pegasus).
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Old October 11th, 2015, 03:19 PM   #10878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keokiracer View Post
It's here. I presume you know how Google Earth works to find the older footage?
No, that's Ashford Dunwoody at 285. Chris posted Pleasant Hill at 85. You're literally not even in the right county.

Meanwhile, there the Atlanta area's third DDI, at Jimmy Carter Blvd and 85, more or less midway between the other two. I took this photo and posted it on Facebook on August 1, and it's still like this even though all the other work appears to have been completed. I dunno... maybe it's permanent. The rustic texture of the rotting plywood and rusting support brackets provides an interesting contrast with the crispness of the decorative metal structure and the colorful lushness of the landscaping.



EDIT: Google maps has pre-DDI aerial imagery, but check out how they mapped it. It's not really like that, lol.
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Last edited by Tom 958; October 11th, 2015 at 03:41 PM.
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Old October 12th, 2015, 07:18 AM   #10879
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Ben Franklin Bridge / I-676 - philly side


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Old October 14th, 2015, 11:33 AM   #10880
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Some tower construction photos from Jazz Guy


West Point / Duke Football Hudson River Trip
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