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Old December 7th, 2015, 08:03 AM   #11001
Innsertnamehere
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^I'm aware of the physics behind it. You see it in Toronto every spring, I just think its a neat phenomenon.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 09:01 AM   #11002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere View Post
^I'm aware of the physics behind it. You see it in Toronto every spring, I just think its a neat phenomenon.
Oh ok.. Sorry lol. I agree!
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Old December 7th, 2015, 09:02 AM   #11003
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I-5 heading from Mount St Helens to Portland:

DSC01067
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01071
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01072
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01073
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01074
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01075
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01076
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01077
by Geogregor*, on Flickr
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Old December 7th, 2015, 09:04 AM   #11004
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DSC01078
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01079
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01080
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01081
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01083
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01084
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01085
by Geogregor*, on Flickr


DSC01087
by Geogregor*, on Flickr
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Old December 7th, 2015, 02:55 PM   #11005
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I believe that's considered one of the most critical bridges in the Northwest. An earthquake could apparently take it out easily. There were plans to replace it, but that went nowhere.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 06:06 PM   #11006
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^I'm aware of the physics behind it. You see it in Toronto every spring, I just think its a neat phenomenon.
I broke a wrist on ice under an overpass last March....
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Old December 7th, 2015, 06:23 PM   #11007
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I believe that's considered one of the most critical bridges in the Northwest. An earthquake could apparently take it out easily. There were plans to replace it, but that went nowhere.
The Colombia River Crossing was doomed by Oregon's instance that it include an extension into Washington state of Portland's failed MAX (a small tram meant to cover S-bahn distances) which residents in Vancouver, Washington overwhelmingly do not want. That inclusion 1) drove up the cost, 2) encroached on the already tight limits of shipping clearance below and aircraft clearance above the bridge, and 3) generated opposition from Vancouver residents.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 07:22 PM   #11008
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Fun fact, both the John F. Kennedy Bridge and the new Abraham Lincoln Bridge opened to traffic on December 6. The JFK Bridge in 1963 and the Lincoln Bridge in 2015.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 07:28 PM   #11009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Fun fact, both the John F. Kennedy Bridge and the new Abraham Lincoln Bridge opened to traffic on December 6. The JFK Bridge in 1963 and the Lincoln Bridge in 2015.
Another coincidence!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincol...s_urban_legend


About interstate spur routes (from the other American thread): Is it possible to have two different spurs with the same number? I. e. two different I-270.

Edit: OK, I see it's not only possible but also not uncommon at all: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...state_Highways
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Old December 7th, 2015, 08:37 PM   #11010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
The Colombia River Crossing was doomed by Oregon's instance that it include an extension into Washington state of Portland's failed MAX (a small tram meant to cover S-bahn distances) which residents in Vancouver, Washington overwhelmingly do not want. That inclusion 1) drove up the cost, 2) encroached on the already tight limits of shipping clearance below and aircraft clearance above the bridge, and 3) generated opposition from Vancouver residents.


MAX is hardly failed, given its continuous expansion. And its hardly "small" either. There was some initial NIMBYism along the early lines, but that has since subsided. It is quite certain that that would have happened here. Alas, people can be very short-sighted.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 08:51 PM   #11011
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The criticism I've read is that Portland has spent billions on light rail without improving the modal share of transit.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 09:10 PM   #11012
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The criticism I've read is that Portland has spent billions on light rail without improving the modal share of transit.
And I've read the exact opposite. If they weren't improving the modal share, why are all of the developments concentrating along the rail lines?
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Old December 7th, 2015, 09:16 PM   #11013
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Apparently the number of bus users dropped by the same amount, keeping the modal share more or less level.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 09:24 PM   #11014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Apparently the number of bus users dropped by the same amount, keeping the modal share more or less level.
Keep in mind that the core bus network's frequency was reduced as an effect of the Great Recession ... This change in frequency (from 15 min to 20 min) is not insignificant for transit users: it's the difference between being okay with just going to a stop and waiting and getting frustrated when a bus is nowhere to be found.

You're arguing about apples and oranges when the issue at hand was caused by a cantaloupe!
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Old December 7th, 2015, 09:36 PM   #11015
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Keep in mind that the core bus network's frequency was reduced as an effect of the Great Recession ... This change in frequency (from 15 min to 20 min) is not insignificant for transit users: it's the difference between being okay with just going to a stop and waiting and getting frustrated when a bus is nowhere to be found.

You're arguing about apples and oranges when the issue at hand was caused by a cantaloupe!
Also note that some of these service cuts are being reversed now for precisely this reason.

Furthermore, it's worthwhile to note that you have to pay attention to the source of your information because everybody (even that algae in your neighbor's swimming pool) has an agenda and some sources may be biased *cough*Reason, Heritage, Cato*cough*.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 09:52 PM   #11016
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I don't understand why U.S. transportation statistics focus so much on commuting. Travel to and from work is only a portion of all travel, typically around a quarter all miles traveled, but between 15 and 20 percent of all trips.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 10:49 PM   #11017
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MAX is hardly a failure, though it could have been planned much better (room for 4-car trains, concrete plans for a downtown tunnel to avoid running in the streets, etc.). Vancouver made a huge mistake by rejecting an easy buy-in into a fairly robust light rail system at very little cost to them.

Hopefully a second iteration of the CRC is proposed soon. To avoid the mistakes of the first, I'd build it with the same number of general-purpose lanes, added HOV lane for buses, a bike trail, and most importantly additional space to eventually add light rail or other features. This is how WSDOT managed to appease Seattle's rich suburbs when replacing the SR 520 floating bridge, though they had to build some capped lids/parks first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I don't understand why U.S. transportation statistics focus so much on commuting. Travel to and from work is only a portion of all travel, typically around a quarter all miles traveled, but between 15 and 20 percent of all trips.
Because the majority of longer distances are daily commutes. So it's much more noticeable than the occasional trip to the store or out in the woods.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 10:52 PM   #11018
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Zy99 View Post
Furthermore, it's worthwhile to note that you have to pay attention to the source of your information because everybody (even that algae in your neighbor's swimming pool) has an agenda and some sources may be biased *cough*Reason, Heritage, Cato*cough*.
Well...given that my source was the guy who designed the network...
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Old December 8th, 2015, 12:55 AM   #11019
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MAX is hardly a failure....
MAX has cost billions of dollars (not counting the cost of a brand-new firetruck it destroyed) and not shifted people from private cars to public transit. That is a failure by any standard. Spending 1/10 the money that has been spent on MAX could have instead been used to triple the bus fleet -- and with modern comfortable eco-friendly buses.

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Vancouver made a huge mistake by rejecting an easy buy-in into a fairly robust light rail system at very little cost to them.
Vancouver avoided a huge mistake by rejecting an outrageously expensive light rail system with all the disadvantages of an urban tram combined with all the disadvantages of suburban commuter rail. MAX is slow, stops are widely spaced, and runs infrequently. I'm a fan of rail, but MAX is the worst implementation I can think of anywhere on the planet.

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Hopefully a second iteration of the CRC is proposed soon.
Here we agree. The reality is that everyone is waiting until 2017, when the northbound span will be 100 years old. Then we'll see renewed calls to replace the Interstate Bridge.

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To avoid the mistakes of the first, I'd build it with ... and most importantly additional space to eventually add light rail or other features.
Space for MAX was the major mistake of the CRC and the source of all the opposition in Vancouver. It made the bridge too expensive and too tall (from the bottom of the deck to the top) so it restricted the important shipping channel below. Building the bridge higher was not an option because of the PDX flight path over the bridge. The only sane options for rail (MAX isn't sane anywhere) are to either put it in a tunnel or move it farther west where the flight path is not a constraint.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 02:34 AM   #11020
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I don't understand why U.S. transportation statistics focus so much on commuting. Travel to and from work is only a portion of all travel, typically around a quarter all miles traveled, but between 15 and 20 percent of all trips.
I think PT is pretty limited for non-commuting trips. I mean who would go grocery shopping on PT if you own a car.
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