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Old February 9th, 2016, 04:04 PM   #11261
ChrisZwolle
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They wanted a signature bridge like the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge. Which is understandable, as the region has a lot of boring beam bridges. The interchanges are more impressive than the regular bridges.

Some would argue it's an unecessary waste of money, but it is built to last a century, so its visual impact will be felt over decades, while the expenditure is just once. It will be a part of the Dallas skyline.
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Old February 9th, 2016, 05:27 PM   #11262
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
They wanted a signature bridge like the Margaret Hunt Hill Bridge. Which is understandable, as the region has a lot of boring beam bridges. The interchanges are more impressive than the regular bridges.

Some would argue it's an unecessary waste of money, but it is built to last a century, so its visual impact will be felt over decades, while the expenditure is just once. It will be a part of the Dallas skyline.
Given the state of Texas's, and the Tea Party's, ideological opposition to spending money on basic things people actually need, I'd argue it's pure hypocrisy.

Sorry to get political, but really.
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Old February 9th, 2016, 07:14 PM   #11263
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Given the state of Texas's, and the Tea Party's, ideological opposition to spending money on basic things people actually need, I'd argue it's pure hypocrisy.

Sorry to get political, but really.
Dallas proper(as well as the other big cities in Texas) are blue while most of the suburbs and rural areas red. The fed/state only gave money for basic pier and beam bridges. The signature portions were funded by private donations(hence the names) and specialized local funding.
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Old February 9th, 2016, 07:15 PM   #11264
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Fair enough, I guess....

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Old February 9th, 2016, 07:24 PM   #11265
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Texas has a history of 'donations' to highway projects. In the 1950s and 1960s there were landowners in the Houston area who donated the right-of-way for the construction of freeways. They found it benificial, the value of their land exploded after the freeway was built. A prominent example was Sharpstown
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Old February 9th, 2016, 09:04 PM   #11266
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[QUOTE=Joshua Dodd;130585372]Horseshoe Project January update



Holy Smokes! Thats a lota lanes.
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Old February 9th, 2016, 09:21 PM   #11267
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This was the schematic I found, 5 eastbound and 6 westbound lanes, plus two-lane frontage roads on either side.

But it feels wider, like 18 lanes could fit there.

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Old February 9th, 2016, 09:52 PM   #11268
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I-405 Seattle suburbs

I-405 tolls rake in more than 3 times expected income

Toll payers spent $3.7 million between the Sept. 27 grand opening and the end of the year, compared with a $1 million forecast, in the corridor between Lynnwood and Bellevue.

Traffic volumes reached levels not expected until after two years. “Drivers quickly perceived the value of express toll lanes, and they jumped in earlier than forecast,” Rubstello said.
Full report: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-...pected-income/

Tolled lanes are not always as unpopular or 'lexus lanes' as they are sometimes said to be. They clearly offer an advantage people are willing to pay the price for. The article goes on to state that the tolls spike at $ 9-10 at times.

In some cases you can't build your way of out congestion, but you can manage it, and tolled express lanes offer a good advantage. Though I think they're most attractive if they have at least two lanes in each direction (or are reversible with at least two lanes). The I-405 express lanes have partially two lanes and partially one lane in each direction.
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Old February 9th, 2016, 11:52 PM   #11269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Given the state of Texas's, and the Tea Party's, ideological opposition to spending money on basic things people actually need, I'd argue it's pure hypocrisy.

Sorry to get political, but really.
The signature bridges were financed mainly by private donors. Politics aside, this is about the growth of a massive metropolis. Dallas Fort Worth is no longer an irrelevant city. We are now the official logistics capitol of the entire Western Hemisphere. This is so huge that we are exploding in population, which is why the freeways are going through a massive overhaul.
There is a bigger picture to the bridges than most people know about. In fact, the picture is so massive that it has been in the plannings since the 1920s.
The Trinity River bottom is going to be transformed into a massive park that will rival Central Park and parks around the world. Where the signature bridges seem to span a measly creek, this area will be transformed into recreational lakes.
Here is the grand scheme of the ultimate plan:





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Old February 10th, 2016, 04:34 AM   #11270
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"Rival" Central Park, how? Size? Because, ya know, everything's bigger in Texas?

One is arguably the most iconic urban park in the world..and the other has a dozen freeway bridges running through it or over it.
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Old February 10th, 2016, 04:55 AM   #11271
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maybe they can make some highways on either side of the river so it can be Marginal Trinity
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Old February 10th, 2016, 05:14 AM   #11272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I-405 tolls rake in more than 3 times expected income

Toll payers spent $3.7 million between the Sept. 27 grand opening and the end of the year, compared with a $1 million forecast, in the corridor between Lynnwood and Bellevue.

Traffic volumes reached levels not expected until after two years. “Drivers quickly perceived the value of express toll lanes, and they jumped in earlier than forecast,” Rubstello said.
Full report: http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-...pected-income/

Tolled lanes are not always as unpopular or 'lexus lanes' as they are sometimes said to be. They clearly offer an advantage people are willing to pay the price for. The article goes on to state that the tolls spike at $ 9-10 at times.

In some cases you can't build your way of out congestion, but you can manage it, and tolled express lanes offer a good advantage. Though I think they're most attractive if they have at least two lanes in each direction (or are reversible with at least two lanes). The I-405 express lanes have partially two lanes and partially one lane in each direction.
The I-405 express lanes are the worst example of tolled express lanes I've experienced. They haven't managed congestion at all since traffic has gotten worse since its been built. The traffic has spilled out onto other roads and highways. My commute on I-5 has increased 10-15 minutes one way on average since they've opened the HOT lanes. They are a perfect example of Lexus lanes since I-405 runs along some of the most wealthy areas of the Seattle metro area. However working class commuters from the area towards the end of the 405 and north of it are punished by sitting in worse than before traffic.

Texas highways are a good example of HOT lanes since they offer good capacity on general purpose lanes with the option of toll lanes. Here they haven't increased capacity at all, just charged for existing capacity.
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Old February 10th, 2016, 06:54 AM   #11273
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"Rival" Central Park, how? Size? Because, ya know, everything's bigger in Texas?

One is arguably the most iconic urban park in the world..and the other has a dozen freeway bridges running through it or over it.
The Park will span the entire Trinity bottom from Dallas to Fort Worth. That is massive.
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Old February 10th, 2016, 07:13 AM   #11274
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^ Quantity isn't the issue, it's Quality
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Old February 10th, 2016, 09:04 AM   #11275
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^ Quantity isn't the issue, it's Quality
The claim is about size. It would be a totally different place than Central Park. No need for snark and condescension.
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Old February 10th, 2016, 09:10 AM   #11276
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
This was the schematic I found, 5 eastbound and 6 westbound lanes, plus two-lane frontage roads on either side.

But it feels wider, like 18 lanes could fit there.

The project is officially 10 main lanes + 8 frontage
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Old February 10th, 2016, 09:15 AM   #11277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I-275westcoastfl View Post
The I-405 express lanes are the worst example of tolled express lanes I've experienced. They haven't managed congestion at all since traffic has gotten worse since its been built. The traffic has spilled out onto other roads and highways. My commute on I-5 has increased 10-15 minutes one way on average since they've opened the HOT lanes. They are a perfect example of Lexus lanes since I-405 runs along some of the most wealthy areas of the Seattle metro area. However working class commuters from the area towards the end of the 405 and north of it are punished by sitting in worse than before traffic.

Texas highways are a good example of HOT lanes since they offer good capacity on general purpose lanes with the option of toll lanes. Here they haven't increased capacity at all, just charged for existing capacity.
The express toll lanes (do note the difference; "express lanes" refer to the I-5 and I-90 systems, which are completely different) are a definite disaster and cost the state DOT their administrator.

The only good thing about them is the speediness of buses in the lanes...which then get stuck trying to weave out of the lanes to exit and serve stops on offramps because WSDOT forgot to include median stations and direct access ramps like those found on SR 520.

Also, Lynnwood and the northern suburbs along I-405 are far from working class...they're a tier below Bellevue/Kirkland on the wealth bracket, but well above places like Everett and Marysville.

Increasing capacity, as said time and time again, is not the right way and would not fly in Seattle--and especially on the Eastside.

And at least the money might go towards I-405 corridor improvements--if there's any left over after the operators take a cut.
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Old February 10th, 2016, 10:20 AM   #11278
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The 'Grand Parkway' in Houston (SH 99) was originally envisioned as a chain of parks that would form a loop around Houston. The idea wasn't too popular with landowners in the 1970s and the project was ultimately reduced to just the toll road, stripped of the park-like characteristics and even some decent landscaping. But it retained the name of 'Grand Parkway'.

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Old February 10th, 2016, 12:01 PM   #11279
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Quote:
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"Rival" Central Park, how? Size? Because, ya know, everything's bigger in Texas?

One is arguably the most iconic urban park in the world..and the other has a dozen freeway bridges running through it or over it.
Eh, good landscape design + good starting conditions can forgive quite a lot.

Have you ever seen Fairmount Park in Philadelphia? A railroad mainline and an Interstate, as well as two park drives that have been converted into overflow lanes for the Interstate, run through it. Several road and rail bridges span the Schuylkill River. But at the same time, go around a bend and you can forget all of that. You can feel like you're on a mountain river miles outside the city.

I think Dallas aiming for Central Park is a tad, er, optimistic. But it might be able to hit something like Millennium Park or Fairmount Park if it's done well.
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Old February 10th, 2016, 04:48 PM   #11280
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Quote:
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The claim is about size. It would be a totally different place than Central Park. No need for snark and condescension.
You're right, Joshua's claim is about size. StoJa9's however is about quality. An urban park with many major road bridges running through it has literally major obstacles to overcome if it's going to be a successful gathering place. People tend to not like to hang out next to towering viaducts with a lot of freeway noise (except for homeless maybe?). No need to be sensitive, I'm being wary of the park plan, nothing against you personally. It's just my opinion man, which is what this forum is for. You certainly have a right to disagree.
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