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Old June 25th, 2017, 06:49 AM   #12201
Buffaboy
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That Macon project looks like pork barrel spending to me. I could never see that happening in Upstate NY, or even downstate.

Ironically, the intersection of I-90 and NY-33 (one of the busiest Upstate, if not the busiest) is deplorable, but won't be fixed anytime soon.
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Old June 25th, 2017, 01:54 PM   #12202
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Old June 25th, 2017, 05:15 PM   #12203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buffaboy View Post
That Macon project looks like pork barrel spending to me. I could never see that happening in Upstate NY, or even downstate.

Ironically, the intersection of I-90 and NY-33 (one of the busiest Upstate, if not the busiest) is deplorable, but won't be fixed anytime soon.

It's true, that really ought to be stack or a turbine type of interchange. Something that isn't a cloverleaf, at least. It's possible they have a plan in the works that we don't know about and I hope they do. Columbus, Ohio was just rebuilding a lot of older intersections on the 270 to do something similar and I don't think it was unreasonably expensive. I think we could do it here but the NYC area gets most of the big money.
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Old June 25th, 2017, 08:40 PM   #12204
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That Macon project looks like pork barrel spending to me. I could never see that happening in Upstate NY, or even downstate.
Eh, it's not really comparable. I actually just came into this thread to make a comment about how insane it is that the Goethals Bridge has a $15 toll and saw this comment. The difference is that basically everything in the New York area costs 10x as much as it would in a place like Georgia so the comparison is all wrong. I mean, the new Goethals bridge isn't a very big bridge at all and wouldn't even have a toll in most of the country since it's so small, but in New York it's a huge deal was an insane toll that's more than the entire NJ Turnpike just because of all the wastefulness associated with building in New York.
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Old June 25th, 2017, 11:32 PM   #12205
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sure, but... if you work in NYC probably you make an extra $15 or 20 k$ per year versus doing the same work in Macon...
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Old June 25th, 2017, 11:37 PM   #12206
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But the houses in high-wage regions are also exorbitantly expensive, not enough to offset the $ 15-20k higher income.

The minimum wage in San Francisco is $ 13 per hour. That sounds pretty good compared to the federal minimum wage, until you see that the rent for a small apartment is like $ 2000 - 3000 per month.

They say that adjusted for the cost of living, a paycheck stretches the farthest in Houston. It has relatively high wages but a low cost of living.
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Old June 26th, 2017, 01:40 AM   #12207
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Interstate 5 in northern Seattle, near the terminus of WA-522.


Seattle skyline and I-5 from NE 75th Street by SounderBruce, on Flickr
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Old June 26th, 2017, 04:28 AM   #12208
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That's a nice view.


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But the houses in high-wage regions are also exorbitantly expensive, not enough to offset the $ 15-20k higher income.

The minimum wage in San Francisco is $ 13 per hour. That sounds pretty good compared to the federal minimum wage, until you see that the rent for a small apartment is like $ 2000 - 3000 per month.

They say that adjusted for the cost of living, a paycheck stretches the farthest in Houston. It has relatively high wages but a low cost of living.
Just updating the info, SF minimum wage is going up $14 p.hr from next week onward. The median rent is actually over $3K for only a 1 bedroom apartment within the City.

Minimum wages in the other cities of the metro area (or better known as Bay Area) are $10-$11 on average. Even so charging $15 bucks for a toll is still over the top here. Golden Gate Bridge is the most expensive tall at $7.50.
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Old June 26th, 2017, 05:42 AM   #12209
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sure, but... if you work in NYC probably you make an extra $15 or 20 k$ per year versus doing the same work in Macon...
No doubt, but every single one of those dollars will be taken away in higher taxes, tolls and cost of living. It's actually a big pet peeve of mine that we're in the so called, "information age" but companies are still paying tens of thousands more to people in a city like NYC instead of say Macon. It's totally unfair to the people doing the exact same job and making less. It's not their fault that places like NYC and San Francisco can't get their act together and pass zoning laws that allow for cheaper housing and build infrastructure at prices similar to other world cities. It just creates an inefficient cycle whereby the most talented people in places like Georgia leave and go to places like NYC and San Francisco to live in tiny one-bedroom apartments because they see much higher salaries in these places. Of course then you have the older people looking to retire migrating back down South trying to get away from the expensive cities because now they're no a fixed income and can buy a mansion in Atlanta for the same price as a small apartment in New York.

PS: If anything your numbers are perhaps even a little low depending on what job a person has. I make $50,000 more a year living up here than I did in Tennessee for what is in all respects a less difficult job.
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Old June 26th, 2017, 10:11 AM   #12210
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Yes, but large cities like NYC are more attractive per se, so people move there not only for higher salaries. I mean, information age and everything, but I guess night and cultural life are a little better in New York than in Macon.
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Old June 26th, 2017, 03:52 PM   #12212
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Yes, but large cities like NYC are more attractive per se, so people move there not only for higher salaries. I mean, information age and everything, but I guess night and cultural life are a little better in New York than in Macon.
It sure is, but with these companies all clustering in a few cities also doesn't give much opportunities for people who don't value night life and top-of-the-line restaurants as much as the urban hipster.

It's kind of ironic that all those tech companies cluster in the same spot in Silicon Valley while all of that work can be done anywhere with an internet connection. The Bay Area has some of the worst traffic congestion in the U.S. Not all jobs in the region pay as much as the famous tech companies so the middle class cannot afford to live close to work. San Francisco has some of the earliest traffic congestion in the U.S., some routes are already severely congested by 5 a.m.
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Old June 26th, 2017, 04:06 PM   #12213
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Yeah, the I-580/I-205 is the worst where just west of Tracy the traffic jam towards San Francisco is already present before 4:30AM.
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Old June 26th, 2017, 10:48 PM   #12214
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It sure is, but with these companies all clustering in a few cities also doesn't give much opportunities for people who don't value night life and top-of-the-line restaurants as much as the urban hipster.

It's kind of ironic that all those tech companies cluster in the same spot in Silicon Valley while all of that work can be done anywhere with an internet connection. The Bay Area has some of the worst traffic congestion in the U.S. Not all jobs in the region pay as much as the famous tech companies so the middle class cannot afford to live close to work. San Francisco has some of the earliest traffic congestion in the U.S., some routes are already severely congested by 5 a.m.
This is the point I'm trying to make. Imagine if instead of having these jobs in Silicon Valley they were in Atlanta. For the same salaries these individuals would be living in large houses with acres of real estate and two cars in the driveway for what they now pay just for a one bedroom apartment. I understand SOME people would still prefer the small apartment in order to be in the hipster capital, but I'm sure a lot of other people would much prefer the far more extravagant suburban lifestyle. Unfortunately they have no choice, if they want to get ahead in tech they have to go to Silicon Valley whether that's their thing or not.
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Old June 26th, 2017, 10:56 PM   #12215
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I-74 Bridges, Iowa-Illinois

A groundbreaking ceremony was held to day to mark the start of the bridge replacement project of I-74. The I-74 Bridge across the Mississippi River connects Davenport, Iowa with Moline, Illinois and will be replaced by a through-arch bridge.

The I-74 Bridge was designed by the famous Polish-American bridge designer Ralph Modjeski. It is one of only two suspension bridges across the Mississippi. It's kind of sad to see the iconic bridge go.

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Old June 27th, 2017, 01:48 AM   #12216
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The overpasses on that below-grade section of I-94 are rather interesting. They look ancient (like 1920's) but surely aren't so old?

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This is the point I'm trying to make. Imagine if instead of having these jobs in Silicon Valley they were in Atlanta. For the same salaries these individuals would be living in large houses with acres of real estate and two cars in the driveway for what they now pay just for a one bedroom apartment. I understand SOME people would still prefer the small apartment in order to be in the hipster capital, but I'm sure a lot of other people would much prefer the far more extravagant suburban lifestyle. Unfortunately they have no choice, if they want to get ahead in tech they have to go to Silicon Valley whether that's their thing or not.
Atlanta is probably a bad example since it has a very strong economy and development lately. Bay Area is one thing, but it's basically a Detroiting phenomenon (Detroit 70 years ago naturally )

Probably various smaller cities in the South like Atlanta, Houston, DFW etc have been growing faster like you are wanting than areas like NYC, which was a global metropolis incessantly choked with traffic, and people crammed in tiny unaffordable apartments 100 years ago.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 04:58 AM   #12217
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That's a nice view.
Too bad its only a nice view from the air lol. On the ground you'll spend time looking at a sea of brake lights, old dirty concrete, and trees.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 06:14 AM   #12218
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With the notable difference that Amsterdam didn't lose most of it's building substance to parking lots, which is the only point I've been trying to make, Jesus. Everybody get back in your pants.



I don't doubt that Houston was (and is) doing well economically but it's certainly not a "thriving city" (now it has become a whole lot better, it was at its worst in the 1960s and 70s, I believe). To be a "thriving city", it actually has to be a city with an actual urban fabric first, not just parking lots interspersed with some high-rises, connecting streets and freeway ramps. What you said was actually part of the point I was making. What happened to Houston was good for the economy (arguably, other cities that shared simililar fates didn't and don't do very well) but bad for the city, as it more or less ceased to exist.


Source: PlannerDan.com (Photo by Alex MacLean)

Does this look like an actual city to you? It's at best a big, centrally located office park - no quality of life whatsoever, if it's even possible to live there.



Don't get so emotional. At no point was I arguing about the human suffering in WWII, which of course was terrible and has nothing to compare to in the U.S. I was referencing to how the cities as structures seemed to fare seemingly similarly destructive fates on both continents, one with violence, one without. I thought it should be clear to everyone that the comparison was rather exaggerated, I was proven wrong.
I've read many posts on the forum over the years. This is up there with the most moronic misinformed cr*p I've have had the misfortune of reading.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 03:04 PM   #12219
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The overpasses on that below-grade section of I-94 are rather interesting. They look ancient (like 1920's) but surely aren't so old?
I'm not sure exactly, but I think the overpasses are rather recent construction. In reading the Wiki article, it looks as though they date from about 1990, from a construction project that saw the I-94/35E multiplex untangled by having the through ramps of the respective freeways enter and exit from the same side of the carriageway.
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Old June 27th, 2017, 11:57 PM   #12220
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I've read many posts on the forum over the years. This is up there with the most moronic misinformed cr*p I've have had the misfortune of reading.
Feel free to make your points then. Or don't, as there already was a sizeable discussion about it at the time.
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