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Old March 4th, 2008, 10:59 PM   #1781
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
But do you guys think, this population growth wouldn't have been occured if they didn't build so many freeways? I mean, people gotta live somewhere.
Northeastern railroad suburbs tend to be a lot denser than Sunbelt freeway suburbs.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 11:03 PM   #1782
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Houses are generally cheaper the further out you get. Since real estate is location location location!
Inversely, housing is also cheaper in some cities the closer to the downtown core you get. Everyone forgets about the slums. And when gentrification takes root, those slums make high profit.

The problem with sprawl, besides commuting time, distance, health, and all of that, is the costs of commuting. Far commutes are expensive $$ €€. If you're not in a skilled profession making good money, check out the statistics for cost of commuting to income percentages. In sprawl cities with no decent rail networks and lots of toll roads, it's more than taxes!

As far as what suburbs are more dense, this is a fun one too. If you live in any sunbelt cities, you'll notice the yards shrink for every subdivision they build. As the land gets used up, they try to fit in more houses. Some of those new ones where it's already built up look pretty dense. I heard about this in Vegas a long time ago, and then noticed it on a toll beltway that used to have nothing on it and is now built up.

I know this is a freeway thread, but my opinion is park and rides. Unless we build old style factory towns and rowhouses.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 11:03 PM   #1783
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Though midwestern cities, like Oklahoma City, Kansas City, Omaha etc. are said to have very few congestion, compared to other cities. It seems to be possible to have a sprawling city without all congestion.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 11:10 PM   #1784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffyl00b View Post
Houses are generally cheaper the further out you get. Since real estate is location location location!
Inversely, housing is also cheaper in some cities the closer to the downtown core you get. Everyone forgets about the slums. And when gentrification takes root, those slums make high profit.

The problem with sprawl, besides commuting time, distance, health, and all of that, is the costs of commuting. Far commutes are expensive $$ €€. If you're not in a skilled profession making good money, check out the statistics for cost of commuting to income percentages. In sprawl cities with no decent rail networks and lots of toll roads, it's more than taxes!

As far as what suburbs are more dense, this is a fun one too. If you live in any sunbelt cities, you'll notice the yards shrink for every subdivision they build. As the land gets used up, they try to fit in more houses. Some of those new ones where it's already built up look pretty dense. I heard about this in Vegas a long time ago, and then noticed it on a toll beltway that used to have nothing on it and is now built up.

I know this is a freeway thread, but my opinion is park and rides. Unless we build old style factory towns and rowhouses.
I agree with you that it's all about location, but in many countries, including (I think) in many parts of Europe, you simply cannot get such large homes for such low prices, mostly because as was mentioned already - land is a scarce resource there.

But of course, people should be buying what they can afford. If they buy a home very far away and then spend half of their income on commuting, it's their problem.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 11:17 PM   #1785
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When you look at most US cities, you can notice that just outside the CBD, the city looks like a countryside with low-density, obscure, ruined housing. In fact, the closer you get to downtown, the lesser land value is. This can't be more evident than in places like Detroit or St. Louis. I think reurbanization of these areas and increasing of land value is a chance for those cities.
Nice and cozy apartments instead of more and more sprawl!
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Old March 4th, 2008, 11:25 PM   #1786
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Not all US downtowns are like that. Maybe in the nineties.

Detroit is a poor example that's actually the oddity, but even their downtown is, although very slowly, improving.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 04:08 AM   #1787
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many people both live and work in the suburbs rather than drive downtown anymore. that complicates things.

Last edited by zaphod; March 5th, 2008 at 04:26 AM.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 04:28 AM   #1788
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For every 1 skyscraper built in a downtown that people here rave about, there's probably 50 low rise office parks going up in the suburbs.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 11:11 AM   #1789
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Probably yes. I noticed Los Angeles has huge industrial parks and office parks in the suburbs. (especially Los Angeles and Orange Counties, Inland Empire, not so much).
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Old March 5th, 2008, 06:27 PM   #1790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Probably yes. I noticed Los Angeles has huge industrial parks and office parks in the suburbs. (especially Los Angeles and Orange Counties, Inland Empire, not so much).
It is true for any metro area in the USA. For instance, Seattle has pretty large office parks in its suburbs.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 06:39 PM   #1791
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It seems that the amount of traffic that comes from suburbs depends on how spread out those suburbs are (and density has to be factored in, of course). Of course Los Angeles which is simply massive will have a ton of traffic congestion. Those midwest cities seem to have relatively tame sprawl, so their freeways can handle the congestion.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 09:02 PM   #1792
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Yeah, the problem with LA is also that the freeway network didn't catched up with spatial developments, especially when the Inland Empire started to boom. So now, all the freeways towards the west are heavily congested (210, 10, 60 and 91 freeways). Freeway expansion not easy feasible now, and neither is railway expansion, because it takes a lot of money to take acquisition of the existing real estate, which prices had boomed in the last decades. That's why they are thinking of building a tunnel under Pasadena for the 710 freeway, instead of removing the houses.

LA needs some more subways. Maybe they can increase the sales taxes for that or something. (they did that in Orange county to finance some highways).
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Old March 5th, 2008, 10:28 PM   #1793
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Majestic View Post
When you look at most US cities, you can notice that just outside the CBD, the city looks like a countryside with low-density, obscure, ruined housing. In fact, the closer you get to downtown, the lesser land value is. This can't be more evident than in places like Detroit or St. Louis. I think reurbanization of these areas and increasing of land value is a chance for those cities.
Nice and cozy apartments instead of more and more sprawl!
This has rapidly changed in the past 10-14 years. Not everywhere, but in many cities the inner areas have been going through a lot of changes.
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Old March 6th, 2008, 02:17 AM   #1794
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This has rapidly changed in the past 10-14 years. Not everywhere, but in many cities the inner areas have been going through a lot of changes.
Well that is because of gentrification in some areas. But to expect such in area's as detroit is pushing it?
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Old March 7th, 2008, 06:46 PM   #1795
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Interstates diagram:



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Old March 7th, 2008, 06:55 PM   #1796
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The I-94 Minneapolis - Milwaukee - Chicago section is missing. I-39 and I-43 are missing too in that area.
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Old March 7th, 2008, 07:05 PM   #1797
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Quote:
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The I-94 Minneapolis - Milwaukee - Chicago section is missing. I-39 and I-43 are missing too in that area.
So is I-24 from Illinois to Chattanooga.
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Old March 7th, 2008, 07:08 PM   #1798
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I-49 too
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Old March 7th, 2008, 07:09 PM   #1799
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Also I-74 and I-72 in Illinois
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Old March 7th, 2008, 07:10 PM   #1800
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And I-97 and I-99
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