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Old March 7th, 2008, 07:11 PM   #1801
ChrisZwolle
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And I-83, this one is REALLY simplified
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Old March 7th, 2008, 07:22 PM   #1802
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Where's I-37 and I-27 in Texas? And what about I-94 from the Twin Cities to Chicago? In fact where is Wisconsin?
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Old March 7th, 2008, 07:26 PM   #1803
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I-65 goes north of Gary, Indiana?
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Old March 7th, 2008, 07:27 PM   #1804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rail Claimore View Post
I can think of only two stretches east of the Mississippi River that rival the 5/Central Valley in that category: I-57 for almost its entire length until the south suburbs of Chicago, and I-75 between Macon, GA, and Tampa. The funny thing about that stretch of I-75 is that it's one of the busiest stretches of rural interstate in the US.
Prepare for a tour de force of boredom:

I-75 IN SOUTHERN GEORGIA

This photo was taken between Forsyth and Atlanta, but about half of I-75 in Georgia is like this, along with nearly all of I-75 in Florida north of Florida's Turnpike. Built in the mid '60's-early '70's as 2x2 with a 60 foot median (lanes are 12 feet wide), widened starting in the mid '80's by adding two lanes and full-width shoulders in the median. A double-faced W-beam guardrail is placed adjacent to the shoulder of whichever roadway is higher. Where the road crosses a bridge, the median is fully decked, and the opportunity is often taken to switch the guardrail from one side to the other at a point where it would be disrupted anyway.

(Sorry for the crappy photo-- the others are better, I promise. )


Georgia's first Interstates-- including I-75 from north of Valdosta to south of Cordele-- were built with a 36 foot median. This post is about the widening and reconstruction of these elderly segments.

This photo was taken a bit south of Tifton, where work is just starting. A bridge has been removed and its replacement is under construction.


Work in progress north of Valdosta, looking south...


...then north from the same bridge. As you can see, the existing concrete pavement is being completely removed and replaced, with all traffic detoured onto the northbound roadway. All of the existing interchange bridges are being retained, and with four lanes and a barrier crammed under them, clearance under them is very tight. Not fun to drive on in a heavy rain!


Approaching an interchange, you can see that the old concrete paving is still intact-- the new is poured right up to it, making for some strikingly crappy transitions. The new pavement is a full four lanes wide, with the rightmost lane intended for use as a shoulder. Presumably the last phase of construction will detour all traffic to the completed southbound roadway so that the remaining old concrete can be replaced.


Most of the non-interchange overcrossing bridges are being replaced, though the few that remain are of the rather dainty-looking poured-in-place arch design you'll see in later photos. I totally do not understand how it was decided which bridges to leave and which to replace, which is part of the reason why I find this section of highway so interesting.


I-75 in Tifton was widened in the mid '80's. The interchanges are closely spaced, so there are auxiliary lanes connecting almost every onramp to the next offramp. All the overcrossing bridges were replaced with new structures providing plenty of clearance on the right, but the added lanes were placed within the 36 foot median, allowing for only a narrow left shoulder. To me it halfway makes sense to do this where the overcrossing bridges aren't replaced, but IMO it would've been better to add the new lanes on the outside and provide full-width left shoulders. As you'll see, I'm not the only one who thinks so...



Finished product north of Tifton. Here a full-width left shoulder is provided throughout at the cost of a narrow right shoulder under the bridges. Here the preexisting pavement was slathered over with a thick layer of asphalt, but the concrete sections between Valdosta and Tifton have the same cross section.


The bridges have been jacked up considerably. Quite a lot of effort to save a bridge that's nearly 50 years old...


Nearing completion north of Tifton. Using a thick asphalt overlay instead of removing and replacing concrete greatly simplifies the detouring sequence. This photo also shows a median barrier gate to be used in case of a major all-lanes-closed incident.


This post is getting too long! More later if anyone wants it...
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Old March 7th, 2008, 10:26 PM   #1805
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Sure, bring it up. How wide are lanes during construction works? I hate those 2-meter lanes.
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Old March 7th, 2008, 10:52 PM   #1806
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Sure, bring it up. How wide are lanes during construction works? I hate those 2-meter lanes.
I don't know, but 11 foot (3.35m) lanes are not unusual on completed cheapo widening projects. Just guessing at the available room under those bridges, I would think 11 feet is as narrow as would be needed.
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Old March 7th, 2008, 10:53 PM   #1807
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I’m not sure if pouring asphalt on existing concrete surface is such good solution.
Both surfaces work a bit different way under stress. Concrete is more stiff while asphalt is more flexible.
So after while concrete plates which are part of surface move a bit between each other under heavy weight of trucks (of course if they move to much they have to replace whole structure).
Asphalt just change shape a bit, creating rows where wheels use to drive.
If you pour asphalt on concrete when concrete plates will move they will cause asphalt to brake above plates joints.
We had this problem in Poland when they poured asphalt onto old German concrete motorway. Asphalt just broke every 2 meters.
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Old March 7th, 2008, 11:09 PM   #1808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
I’m not sure if pouring asphalt on existing concrete surface is such good solution.
Both surfaces work a bit different way under stress. Concrete is more stiff while asphalt is more flexible.
So after while concrete plates which are part of surface move a bit between each other under heavy weight of trucks (of course if they move to much they have to replace whole structure).
Asphalt just change shape a bit, creating rows where wheels use to drive.
If you pour asphalt on concrete when concrete plates will move they will cause asphalt to brake above plates joints.
We had this problem in Poland when they poured asphalt onto old German concrete motorway. Asphalt just broke every 2 meters.
Yes, you're right. That's another thing that's interesting about this highway. In some places they built as though they were concerned with these things, in others they didn't.

IIRC, all of I-75 in this area was originally built of concrete, but the parts (mainly) north of Tifton-- the ones that are finished in asphalt now-- were overlaid with asphalt many years ago. Perhaps the thinking is that so much asphalt will prevent cracks from penetrating all the way through. Or perhaps it was simply regarded as overkill to remove and replace pavement that had already been overlaid.

Of course, the next obvious question is why south of Tifton the original concrete has lasted so long while north of Tifton it hasn't...
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Old March 7th, 2008, 11:10 PM   #1809
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That's because the foundation is not right. If a concrete foundation is solid and smooth, pouring asphalt shouldn't be a problem, though i prefer a classic way of only asphalt or only concrete.
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Old March 7th, 2008, 11:36 PM   #1810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
That's because the foundation is not right. If a concrete foundation is solid and smooth, pouring asphalt shouldn't be a problem, though i prefer a classic way of only asphalt or only concrete.
Possibly, but this is 70 miles (100km) of highway, all originally built in a rather short time. I can understand that there would be variations in the integrity of the subgrade, but I don't understand why they would occur over such a large area.

I really think that the difference in construction techniques has more to do with philosophy and policy than with field conditions. Starting in the '90's there was a policy shift away from putting down lanes quickly and cheaply and toward more durability, especially at the federal level. And without checking, I think it's safe to assume that this work is funded under the Interstate Maintainance program, which IIRC is 80% federal.

There are some other funding-related issues, too. It gets complicated.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 07:47 AM   #1811
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Irvine-Corona Expressway | Longest U.S. Underground Expressway

Will Longest U.S. Underground Expressway See the Light?


In addition to relieving traffic congestion in Southern California, the Irvine-Corona Expressway could accommodate oil, power and water lines. In one proposal, each passenger tunnel would be one-way, while the truck and light-rail tunnel would run in both directions.

By Chris Dixon
Illustration by Axelderoy
popularmechanics.com
Published in the November 2007 issue

This winter, test borings are expected to begin for one of the most audacious tunnel projects ever proposed. One concept calls for a set of three tunnels—two for cars and one for both trucks and high-speed light rail—that would stretch for 12 miles, burrowing beneath the Santa Ana mountain range, and carrying up to 70,000 cars a day between California’s Riverside and Orange counties. The route would run in the same general direction as the 91 freeway, which is one of the most congested thoroughfares in the country. Once completed, it would be the longest traffic tunnel in North America, ahead of Boston’s comparatively puny 3.5-mile Big Dig.

The tunnel proposal, currently called the Irvine-Corona Expressway, has been making the rounds for seven years. It was first studied officially by the Riverside County Transportation Commission in June 2004, and its future now depends on those test borings. If the ground soil and bedrock contain too much water, tunneling could be deemed overly difficult. For opponents of the project, water content is the least of the expressway’s problems. For example, the massive tunnels would cross multiple fault lines, but none of them are active.

At any rate, well-built tunnels are among the safest places to be in an earthquake, according to H. Tony Rahimian, an engineer and consultant for both Riverside and Orange counties’ transportation agencies. “The ground has a dampening effect,” he says. “During an earthquake, the whole tunnel moves at once.” Regularly spaced exits would lead to an evacuation tube, to help drivers escape. To counter worries that vented exhaust fumes will choke the surrounding Cleveland National Forest, the proposal includes ceiling-mounted air purifiers that would scrub the air. To offset the carbon footprint of those purifiers, power could be recovered as hydroelectricity from the downhill flow of water in one of the tunnels.

If the borings hold up, and the project survives an extensive chain of reviews, construction could last until 2023, with a price tag of at least $5.8 billion. For now, work is already under way to widen Route 91, but Rahimian insists the tunnel should be considered. “There are good concepts out there,” Rahimian says, “but we can’t know whether this project is viable without test results.”


Irvine-Corona Expressway
Proposed Route

If it’s ever built, the will cut through 12 miles of soil, sand and 200-million-year-old rock, sloping downward to prevent flooding and possibly to allow for a gravity-fed water line. The actual route and elevation are subject to change, but the current path crosses several inactive faults, shown as black vertical lines in the illustration above, which is not drawn to scale.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 07:51 AM   #1812
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not actual route, but a reference of location.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 08:27 AM   #1813
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Neat I suppose, but I wouldn't want to drive through such a long tunnel.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 01:14 PM   #1814
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Quote:
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Neat I suppose, but I wouldn't want to drive through such a long tunnel.
especially in los angeles, earthquakes and all, especially on a fault line...
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Old March 8th, 2008, 01:59 PM   #1815
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I-75 IN SOUTHERN GEORGIA, part 2
costarring I-475...


Another completed segment of I-75 south of Cordele, showing the narrowed right shoulder under a bridge.


A bit north of there: same bridge design, but with the 60 foot median instead of the 36. Apparently the civil design was completed for the narrower segment before that for the wider one, but the bridge design was done at the same time for both. The guardrail on the bridge is of a type that didn't appear before 1962 or so-- the segments I've shown so far were completed before then, as early as 1958, IIRC.


Entering the last construction zone for six-laning, just south of Cordele. First south of GA 300...


...then north, approaching US 280. As usual, the overcrossing bridge was replaced before work on the I-75 traffic lanes began.


Just north of US 280 the median narrows briefly as I-75 crosses a railroad and some streets. The median was decked over in the mid '80's, but no lanes were added then. Beyond, the next interchange is being totally reconstructed, with a new bridge over I-75 (four lanes plus left turn lanes) and new ramps built far outboard of the old ones.


The original 60 foot median returns north of Cordele. Here at the end of the construction zone it appears that widening will be done to the outboard of the existing lanes, retaining a median that's wide enough not to require a guardrail. You can see the difference as the new widening connects to the old.


This is the interchange with the Richard Russell Parkway extension near Warner Robins, completed a couple of years ago. Note how ungodly much land it takes up. There are a couple of other new or rebuilt interchanges south of Macon that are equally sprawling. Also, note the wide median. This is the only place on I-75 in Georgia south of Macon where a bridge crosses an extra-wide median.


A huge project is underway to rebuild the interchange between I-75, I-475 and Hartley Bridge Road. Looking south from Hartley Bridge, you can (almost ) see new roadways outboard of I-75 on each side. The southbound one is three lanes wide and at a different elevation from the existing lanes. It appears that when the project is completed I-75 and I-475 will converge over a mile further south than at present.


Looking north from the same bridge, you can see the ramp that will carry Hartley Bridge traffic across I-75 and onto I-475. eliminating weaving. A cut-and-cover tunnel under the new I-475 southbound lanes will accomplish the same thing in the other direction.


FWIW, the 75/475 split. Just beyond here there's a temporary concrete plant in the wide median of I-475.


I-475 was built in the mid '60's like the segments of I-75 in this post, and with the same 60 foot median, but it was widened later, in 1999-2001 or so. Instead of leaving a narrow grassed median, they installed a concrete barrier and paved the whole thing. The left shoulders look at bit wider, and there's a bit more clearance on the right side. This photo was taken near the northern end, with the added lane about to be dispensed with via a lane-drop exit immediately before I-75. The tall post is for video cameras; spaced every thousand feet (300 meters) or so, they cover all of I-475.


Merging with I-75. Actually, not merging: for the next 7 miles (11km) or so, the northbound roadway of I-75 is four lanes of asphalt while the southbound is three lanes of concrete! The fourth lane doesn't end until the other side of Forsyth, ten miles away.




Where the median goes back to 60 feet wide, the barrier isn't in the center. Instead it's offset enough to place the added lanes directly adjacent to the preexisting ones and allow full-width left shoulders on both sides-- except under this bridge, where the center bent is in the left shoulder.


Finally, in Forsyth. I-75 was completed here in 1959 and totally reconstructed in the mid '80's to then-prevailing urban (!) standards, with no median but full-width left shoulders. Northbound and southbound are still of different materials, but each roadway has four lanes.


OK, that's it. I hope you liked it.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 03:22 PM   #1816
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Can you believe this? I doubt if such a construction can be found anywhere else in the world

Location: Newark, NJ
[IMG]http://i27.************/2nlqmhf.jpg[/IMG]
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Old March 8th, 2008, 03:28 PM   #1817
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[img]http://i26.************/2rfa7mg.jpg[/img]
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Old March 8th, 2008, 04:34 PM   #1818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chriszwolle View Post
Can you believe this? I doubt if such a construction can be found anywhere else in the world

Location: Newark, NJ
[IMG]http://i27.************/2nlqmhf.jpg[/IMG]
You will find most New Yorkers have nothing nice to say about New Jersey and its people.

1. Driving in New Jersey is horrible, between horrible road layouts and even worse New Jersey drivers who grew up on those horrible road layouts have adapted to such hell, it is a nightmare.

2. New Jersey is the turnpike, it is the state you drive through to get to Philadelphia, they have nothing. So what do they do? They build the most boring and tedious mega road in the world; a straight line, lined with nothing but trees. And with exits every 20 miles they toll you to hell.

3. I do not think when they built it, or even to this day that they realized in the New York metro area, and every lane you build is instantly congested.

4. New Jersey steals our sport teams and places them in a swap that is symbolic of that entire state. So now even though the New York Giants and New York Jets, retain the NY name they are truly New Jersey teams even though many ignorant New Yorkers including city hall celebrate them as NY teams. Dammit, they are a New Jersey team, accept it NY, they might as well be in LA with the dodgers.

5. The most dangerous drivers in New York City are not the fresh of the boat cabbies but rather cars with NJ tags. If you see NJ in your rear view mirror, get out of that giant SUV's way because some guido is about to rear end you while sipping a starbucks latte and yelling on the phone about how bad traffic is.
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Old March 8th, 2008, 04:55 PM   #1819
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So, you're not too keen on New Jersey people huh?
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Old March 8th, 2008, 05:06 PM   #1820
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Hey, where's the pictures of the "We Bare All" billboards along I-75?
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