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Old March 9th, 2008, 05:44 AM   #1841
gladisimo
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especially in los angeles, earthquakes and all, especially on a fault line...
Now you can feel my fear of going in the tube on BART everyday...

I know it's supposed to be safe, and it survived the 89 quake, but I'm still afraid.
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Old March 9th, 2008, 06:00 AM   #1842
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Seriously, the Big Dig ended up costing $14 Billion. This one will cost over $50 Billion for sure and it'll be dealt with the same way the Big Dig was dealt with... that is, badly.

70,000 cars a day is good, but not in LA. For this tunnel to be useful, it should have a 4x4 expressway instead of a 3x3. But the idea is good though. I hope it gets built...
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Old March 9th, 2008, 05:40 PM   #1843
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I have read about this proposal. It wasn't so smart to concentrate all jobs in the O.C., while everybody lives in the Inland Empire. The tolls on the 91 express lanes can be ridiculous high. The problem is that there are only 4 freeways in this area, (210, 10, 60 and 91 freeways), which are all very congested. The Santa Ana Mountains doesn't allow a straight road between Corona and Irvine. 12 miles is quite long for US standards.
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Old March 9th, 2008, 05:42 PM   #1844
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Originally Posted by shadyunltd View Post
Seriously, the Big Dig ended up costing $14 Billion. This one will cost over $50 Billion for sure and it'll be dealt with the same way the Big Dig was dealt with... that is, badly.

70,000 cars a day is good, but not in LA. For this tunnel to be useful, it should have a 4x4 expressway instead of a 3x3. But the idea is good though. I hope it gets built...
First thing; this one is in a quite different environment. Urban tunnels tend to get a huge cost overrun. This one is also not very easy in the seismic zone, but you don't need detours and demolition of homes and all other stuff related to urbanism like electrical wires, sewers, pipelines and stuff.

I agree on the second issue, 2x2 lanes is nothing, it should have been 2x5 lanes, like most freeways in Los Angeles. This doesn't look like good future planning to me, especially with the rapid growing suburbs south of Corona and Riverside. (around Temecula).
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Old March 9th, 2008, 05:51 PM   #1845
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If you spread out the costs over like 10 - 15 years of construction, it's not all bad. They could increase the sales tax, like they did in Orange County and Phoenix to construct some freeways. I'd suggest they do that in Riverside County, because they are likely the ones to use it the most.
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Old March 9th, 2008, 11:05 PM   #1846
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Hey, great pics and explanation, Tom 958!
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Old March 9th, 2008, 11:16 PM   #1847
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Hey, great pics and explanation, Tom 958!
Hey, thanks! I should get started on my next project-- it's a bit more exciting...

If I'm ever gonna give back to others on this site even a fraction of the pleasure they've given me, I'd better get to work.

Last edited by Tom 958; March 9th, 2008 at 11:22 PM.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 12:01 AM   #1848
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^ I wonder what this next project would be.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 12:15 AM   #1849
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Will it be a tollway or free?
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Old March 10th, 2008, 01:52 AM   #1850
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Originally Posted by Verso View Post
^ I wonder what this next project would be.
Don't get too worked up-- it'll be more impressive than this:


but nowhere near as impressive as this:


Actually, it's here: http://www.google.com/maphp?hl=en&q=...39139&t=k&z=14 , which is only about three miles from my house. It doesn't look like that any more-- there's a $147m reconstruction project underway now, about 80% completed. I went out and took some photos right after I last posted, but I should've gone earlier in the day. The lighting was crappy for what ought to be the most dramatic photos, and I might not get a chance to reshoot them until next weekend. Maybe I'll post some soon and others later.

Edit: And there's a special treat for Radi...

Last edited by Tom 958; March 10th, 2008 at 02:10 AM.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 02:55 AM   #1851
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First thing; this one is in a quite different environment. Urban tunnels tend to get a huge cost overrun. This one is also not very easy in the seismic zone, but you don't need detours and demolition of homes and all other stuff related to urbanism like electrical wires, sewers, pipelines and stuff.

I agree on the second issue, 2x2 lanes is nothing, it should have been 2x5 lanes, like most freeways in Los Angeles. This doesn't look like good future planning to me, especially with the rapid growing suburbs south of Corona and Riverside. (around Temecula).
Someone mentioned my city?!?!? No way!
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Old March 10th, 2008, 03:05 AM   #1852
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Don't get too worked up-- it'll be more impressive than this
Ahaha, add this one.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 04:27 AM   #1853
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This rant is such crap, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
The NJ Turnpike was built to get out-of-staters through NJ as quickly as possible. The Garden State is actually quite lovely- but if you never bothered to exit the pike then you'd never know about that- and that's your own fault.
And as far as the quality of drivers?
Seriously- drive around Staten Island for a few hours. NYC roads are actually very poor when compared with those in New Jersey.
Indeed. I-80 in the Delaware Water Gap (or whatever it's called) is pretty nice, with those gorges and all. The Turnpike is mixed...I am a fan of the industrial landscapes and the large lanes in North Jersey.

However, the part in South Jersey almost made fall asleep once, no lie.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 04:32 AM   #1854
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I do not disagree with you, by the way, i think it's nonsense to use your car for commuting within New York City (except Staten Island). Mass transit is fairly good. But it's the people from the suburbs, for who mass transit is less of an option. It is always difficult to build the necessary evil of expressways in the central city, while it's used by the suburban population around it.

Though, even with the huge mass transit they have in New York, the commuting time is the highest among any large metropolitan area in the United States.
For commuters who live outside the city, the best (and most expensive, BTW) is to commute via Public Transport to NYC while keeping their cars for everything else. Commuting by car daily to New York is a hassle, you'd have to have deep pockets and high patience for that.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 05:44 AM   #1855
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For commuters who live outside the city, the best (and most expensive, BTW) is to commute via Public Transport to NYC while keeping their cars for everything else. Commuting by car daily to New York is a hassle, you'd have to have deep pockets and high patience for that.
I think you meant least.

Peak is still cheaper than gas+parking.

And I have fallen asleep in south jersey, then was smacked in the head.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 11:27 AM   #1856
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For commuters who live outside the city, the best (and most expensive, BTW) is to commute via Public Transport to NYC while keeping their cars for everything else. Commuting by car daily to New York is a hassle, you'd have to have deep pockets and high patience for that.
I think New York has one of the most outdated expressways networks of the United States. There is almost no freeway wider than 2x3 lanes, and a lot of those parkways have a bad alignment. Like the Long Island expressway, which is 2x3 all the way (except a section in Nassau Co which is 2x4), but at every exit heading to New York, traffic volumes increase. That's why the New York commuting times are the longest of the U.S. They are 30% longer than traffic jam capital Los Angeles!
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Old March 10th, 2008, 06:50 PM   #1857
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I think New York has one of the most outdated expressways networks of the United States. There is almost no freeway wider than 2x3 lanes, and a lot of those parkways have a bad alignment. Like the Long Island expressway, which is 2x3 all the way (except a section in Nassau Co which is 2x4), but at every exit heading to New York, traffic volumes increase. That's why the New York commuting times are the longest of the U.S. They are 30% longer than traffic jam capital Los Angeles!
To build the amount of lanes that it would take to ease congestion would be so incredably cost prohibative that the thought of doing it should never cross someone's mind. That and it would encourage the sprawl, outpacing our public transportation system, which NYers hate.

The BQE (brooklyn queens expressway) use to be a single lane highway, always backed up, now that it is expanded to "ease" congestion it is still a death trap of congestion. The mantra is pray for me I drive the BQE. Our "outdated" highway system is our blessing, forcing greater investment on public transit which any NYer will argue, right or wrong, leads to a much better quality of life.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 07:00 PM   #1858
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The BQE (brooklyn queens expressway) use to be a single lane highway, always backed up, now that it is expanded to "ease" congestion it is still a death trap of congestion.
Ofcourse it is. A 6 lane freeway in a multimillion city can never handle the amount of traffic such a city generates, especially since the next expressway is far away (I-678 if i'm correct). Besides that, population growth causes more traffic, that's very simple. In the case of New York, it seems pretty clear a mass transit system can never meet transportation demands in such a large city, that's why New Yorkers have the longest average commute in the United States.

On the other side, centering all work locations on southern and mid Manhattan might also not be a good solution. It means millions of people have to be moved within like 2 hours. Are there any other large working locations in New York besides Manhattan and downtown Brooklyn? (NY City proper)
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Old March 10th, 2008, 07:07 PM   #1859
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I like it though that NYC doesn't have mega-wide expressways.
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Old March 10th, 2008, 07:10 PM   #1860
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I do so too. But to completely wipe out expressway-improvement is crazy. Even if you ban vehicles from southern Manhattan, there are still millions of people living outside that area, which have transportation needs. It's an utopia to think this all (or even partial) transportation demand can be met by mass transit.
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