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Old July 8th, 2007, 07:13 PM   #61
dewrob
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one of my favourite threads in EE, been checking it since I'm a member here... too bad it's updated rearly.... neverthless the updates are great
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Old July 9th, 2007, 06:15 AM   #62
karlarrec1
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Some more recent pictures/projects:

Mixed-use project in the center:




New boutique hotel in a village outside Yerevan (funded by the Diaspora):


More shots from the completed portion of Northern Avenue:





The new City Hall
image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


Cascade
image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


The Diaspora-based Cafesjian Museum Foundation is building a $25M world-class Musuem of Contemporary Art at the top of the Cascade monument. Under construction - to be completed in 2009.







Better renderings of the design of the museum can be found at the architect's (David Hotson) website: http://www.hotson.net.

Here are some shots from the site -- they're not very exciting, but it's all I could find!

image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


New shopping options for Yerevan:
image hosted on flickr


image hosted on flickr


There are also new stores from Benetton, Apple, Guess, etc -- but no photos!

Final shot of Republic Square:

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Independence Day

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Old July 11th, 2007, 08:29 AM   #63
Kapedani
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I was trying to find something about Armenia today and I was looking all over this forum...didn't even think to look in the EE forum until I saw this.

To tell the truth I had not the slightest idea what Armenia looked like...so I'm glad I found this thread.

However...I have to say something...I'm slightly disappointed. Don't take this the wrong way...but I was expecting something more. Plus...I just saw a thread about Azerbaijan...and I was very impressed with the new construction and developments in Azerbaijan. I guess Azeris have the benefit of huge oil reserves. I was hoping to see something similar in Armenia...but besides those buildings in the center...the rest of the city seems to still have much of the air of an old Soviet-style provincial town...

Again don't take this the wrong way...but the level of new development seems quite low...

I hope there will be more pictures in the future...

This is Yerevan right?




View from Erebuni (the ancient capital)


I'm also very interested in history and archeology...so here are some photos of the ancient Erebuni

Cuneiform script on the walls (seems to be a lot of borrowings in terms of culture and style from the Persians)






Very similar style to Persians




The sphinxes (also similar to Persian ones)




2nd century ad temple reconstructed by the Soviets


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Old July 11th, 2007, 08:31 AM   #64
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Oops...I just realized this was the projects and construction subforum...and my pictures have nothing to do with that. Sorry...
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Old July 11th, 2007, 09:56 AM   #65
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Kapedani: I appreciate your interest in Yerevan, and Armenia in general.

You're right -- the development underway in Yerevan is underwhelming, especially when compared to its neighbor Azerbaijan. However, it must be looked at in the correct context.

Since 1994 (ie, 3 years after independence), Armenia has endured a double economic blockade -- one from the east (Azerbaijan) and one from the west (Turkey). This amounts to about 85% of Armenia's land borders closed. Also, Armenia has no sea coast (unlike Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Turkey). It is totally landlocked, and depends on land borders for trade. As it stands now, exports must go through Georgia and Russia to get to Europe, instead of going through Turkey, which would cost much less.

From 1988 - 1994, it fought a war with Azerbaijan. And today, it single-handedly subsidizes another country, the non-recognized Republic of Nagorno-Karabagh (the land over which the war was fought and won). A great deal of Armenia's budget goes to subsidizing Nagorno-Karabagh. That conflict is still not resolved, and that is why the borders are closed. Add to all of this the fact that Armenia has no natural resources (no oil), and the fact that it has fewer than 3 million people (the smallest country in the region), and it is truly a miracle that Armenia even exists.

In the 1990s, just after the collapse of the Soviet Union, and period during the war immediately after it, Armenia was a country in a complete and absolute shambles. There was no electricity, no money, no running water, no bread, etc. These were the "dark years" -- yet they were only a decade ago. The fact that the buildings in the central square are lit at night and the fountains are filled with water is a blessing for Yerevan, for they remember what it was like just a few years ago.

Every year since 1999, Armenia has sustained 10%+ GDP growth, and it has earned the praise of both the US and EU as the most diversified and the most stable economy in the region -- and that is the reason we are now finally seeing the first signs of foreign development in Armenia.

What was Armenia's biggest deficit (lack of oil) is turning out to be its biggest asset, as it has been forced to create a real economy (unlike Azerbaijan). Mining, construction, services, IT, etc -- are all booming in Armenia.

Finally, the tourism sector is probably the fastest growing in Armenia. It is on target to reach close to 500,000 tourists this year. For a country of 3 million -- that's huge!

Anyway, this is only the beginning for Armenia, as I see it.

Last edited by karlarrec1; July 11th, 2007 at 10:09 AM.
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Old July 11th, 2007, 10:18 AM   #66
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By the way, I came across some more new pictures of the Northern Avenue project, phase 1 (taken in the winter):

image hosted on flickr


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Old July 11th, 2007, 01:11 PM   #67
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Hi, my name is Demis from London England. I am working on a project regarding the colours in use by the different European police forces, on their vehicles. I badly need photos of all kind of police cars, vans, 4x4s etc, from Armenia, so as to included them in my book. Can anyone help me please? You can also contact me on [email protected]
Thanking you all
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Old July 12th, 2007, 01:10 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karlarrec1 View Post
What was Armenia's biggest deficit (lack of oil) is turning out to be its biggest asset, as it has been forced to create a real economy (unlike Azerbaijan). Mining, construction, services, IT, etc -- are all booming in Armenia.
I like your reasoning... I see it in a similar way for Macedonia. We lack sea, we lack tourism (because the lack the sea), we lack oil, we more or less lack other natural resources. But it's excately those hardships that will force us to other even more sustainable ways of developing our economy. This pattern is quite common in human history.

Someone in the DLM just yesterday said that one of the reasons why Northern Europeans are more developed is climate and he's correct. In the past, while we could just pick a frut from the tree and feed ourselves and enjoy the nice weather in our naturally blessed mediteranian region, those guys in the north had to be much more invoative in order to feed themselves, survive, get warm etc. It's excately those things that looked as handicappes that turned out to be assets for them.

Of course there is always the alternative of us failing as a country because of similar reasons as your. Funky neighbours, geopilitical victims, small nation etc... However I think after the real threats of the 90s the process of going forward is ireversable now.

Sorry for the offtopic, just wanted to draw the paralel here.
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Old July 12th, 2007, 01:35 AM   #69
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I like the look of Erevan-it's strange and cosy,not boring like many other towns.
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Old July 12th, 2007, 05:33 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewrob View Post
I like your reasoning... I see it in a similar way for Macedonia. We lack sea, we lack tourism (because the lack the sea), we lack oil, we more or less lack other natural resources. But it's excately those hardships that will force us to other even more sustainable ways of developing our economy. This pattern is quite common in human history.

Someone in the DLM just yesterday said that one of the reasons why Northern Europeans are more developed is climate and he's correct. In the past, while we could just pick a frut from the tree and feed ourselves and enjoy the nice weather in our naturally blessed mediteranian region, those guys in the north had to be much more invoative in order to feed themselves, survive, get warm etc. It's excately those things that looked as handicappes that turned out to be assets for them.

Of course there is always the alternative of us failing as a country because of similar reasons as your. Funky neighbours, geopilitical victims, small nation etc... However I think after the real threats of the 90s the process of going forward is ireversable now.

Sorry for the offtopic, just wanted to draw the paralel here.
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Old July 12th, 2007, 06:12 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dewrob View Post
I like your reasoning... I see it in a similar way for Macedonia. We lack sea, we lack tourism (because the lack the sea), we lack oil, we more or less lack other natural resources. But it's excately those hardships that will force us to other even more sustainable ways of developing our economy. This pattern is quite common in human history.

Someone in the DLM just yesterday said that one of the reasons why Northern Europeans are more developed is climate and he's correct. In the past, while we could just pick a frut from the tree and feed ourselves and enjoy the nice weather in our naturally blessed mediteranian region, those guys in the north had to be much more invoative in order to feed themselves, survive, get warm etc. It's excately those things that looked as handicappes that turned out to be assets for them.

Of course there is always the alternative of us failing as a country because of similar reasons as your. Funky neighbours, geopilitical victims, small nation etc... However I think after the real threats of the 90s the process of going forward is ireversable now.

Sorry for the offtopic, just wanted to draw the paralel here.
I don't fully agree with your comment on Northern Europeans. Just 70 years ago the Scandinavian countries were some of the least developed in Europe. Actually, according to various academic studies the Northern European countries, including ones such as Germany, were the least developed in Europe at all times of the continent's civilized history except for the last 200-300 years. I believe that the main reason these countries are better off today is because they are not placed in a so-called geographical shatter-belt wherein critically ‘opposed’ religions/cultures/civilizations clash and create centrifugal forces that tear "these" regions apart and consequently stimulate instability. Think Balkans or Eastern Europe and you'll get the point, but there are many books written on the subject and you don't have to take my word for anything I say. Plus, Russia is Nothern European but less advanced then Southern Europe. Do they not have the harshest climate to deal with? The answer to this dilemma lies not in climate, but once again in the shatter-belt theory!

Another practical example I would like to share is this:

Most of Europe's innovations throughout history have risen from the southernmost parts of the continent. In ancient times the Balkans (SEE) were the epicenter of "Europe's" development. This epicenter later shifted to South-Central Europe (Rome/Italy), which held the title for nearly 1500 years, ending with a standing ovation called the Renaissance. Then the epicenter shifted further west, but still remained in Southern Europe. It was Portugal and Spain's time to lead! They created the world's first truly global empires and to a great extent modern international trade, capitalism and globalization stems from the decks of their oceangoing vessels. I don't have to describe in detail how the epicenter continued to shift onward to France, then England, Germany, the USA, etc... ...

It was during these dynamic shifts that the Scandinavians remained largely disconnected from all sorts of power struggles. It is the safety and stability of their relative geographical isolation that allowed them to create marginally peaceful societies that are in turn prerequisites to sustainable economic development.

An example from Asia is Japan. Their isolation made them much less advanced then China, atleast up until the Meiji Restoration of 1868. The Japanese copied just about everything from the much more advanced/innovative China for nearly 200- years, but in the last 100 years have become known as leaders in technology, while China stagnated and entered a period of decline. Why? Just like in the Balkans, the Chinese were faced with a clash of cultures, empires, religions, etc... ... Their inability to unify their resources, especially the HR component of these, degraded the mighty dragon into a lethargic and arthritic lizard with a bad case of Alzheimer’s. Then again, today we can clearly see what happens when stability is re-established and therefore China is rising once more…

In conclusion, stability precludes organization, and organization precludes the efficient and effective use of resources. That in itself precludes such things as innovation and holistic progress. Maybe it's the Balkan's turn once more... Unless we decide to **** it up “once more!”
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Old July 12th, 2007, 10:41 AM   #72
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of course nothing is black and white and much of what U said makes sense and I agree...

However I find the southern "contribution" to civilization overrated... cradle of democracy blah blah... we're stucked in the past while the north is creating history and has been doing so for quite a while... And the progress of humanity achieved in the past 100 years has been unprescented in comparising to any other period IMO, even in relative terms.

second thing... U got stucked with the far north Scanidavians, I was also talking about Germans, Dutch, British etc.

third... I was talking about their state of mind and how they reached this level, not how long have they been wealthy and prosperous. I'm quite aware that for example Icelanders have been living in underground huts till very recently. Their main university has been established only in 1911 for example and that is sure indicative. However the progress they achieved in such a short period is really remarkable.

meanwhile if we stick to our region the peak of each individual Balkan state has been hunderts if not thousands of years ago and we are still bashing each other on daily basis because of those past glory days.

Even though we like to beleive otherwise, even our summarized contribution to the modern world is minor in comparasing from what came from the northern nations.

Of course I don't say we are geneticly stupid or lesser than them but that our mentality, the way it is shaped due to many varoius reasons, is less progressive then theirs. Things could change but it'll take time. For the time being being a restaurant or a cafe owner is more respectable (and profitable) in Macedonia often than being an IT Engineer or a Doctor. The mentality is focused on leisure, relaxation, luxtury, easy life but not on the means how to reach all those things. The Macedonian dream is not to create, not to make profit, not to make progress, not to make a sustainable developement but to live for the moment. To have a nice car, good clothes and enough money to make the daily parades in the Skopje cafes/bars/night clubs... All this preferably with a dodgy 'get rich over night' scheme.
My experiances tell me that other Balkanities are not much different.
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Old July 12th, 2007, 10:55 AM   #73
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Great summary dewrob! Could not have said it better myself

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Old July 12th, 2007, 10:56 AM   #74
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Yerevan is nice and Armenians are nice people.

One of my best friends is an Armenian
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Old July 12th, 2007, 11:33 AM   #75
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I have warm feelings to armenians too. We gave shelter to many of them in the beggining of 20th century and most them are now solid part of our society.

@ dewrob... It is really not that simple when we talk about those things.

Brits for example are now leaving their United Kingdom and finding their paradise on the balkans ... While their home land gets flooded with indians , pakistanians, balkanians and the likes.

Besides not many of the brits or scandinavians are in such a higher state of mind .... We are supirior than them in many aspects.

The problem here on the balkans comes from the fact that we are too small, fragmented and we have a lot of historical accumulations ...

Take Bulgaria for example - for 100 years we have suffered 3 national catastrophes ... we have experienced dictorships , kommunism etc. ... How the hell we could be normal when we didn't had even a small period of 30-40 years of normal and steady development ?

However You both with Dulgeroff have right in what you say.


btw. there is something else when talking about the paralels between Macedonia and Armenia. In the Macedono-Odrinsko Opulchenie from 1912-13 there was a big number of armenians - the biggest of all foreigners who signed as volunteers . You must apreciete that they fought for your freedom if i can state it like that.

Last edited by Turnovec; July 12th, 2007 at 11:43 AM.
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Old July 12th, 2007, 04:51 PM   #76
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Dewrob,

When I take the Southern European parts of the continent, including of course Italy, France, Spain, Portugal, Greece, the Balkans, etc... ... I dare say that the contribution to culture, literature and science is greater than that which has come from the Northern countries. It's not just my opinion though, many papers have been written on the so-called Latin vs. Germanic contributions to world progress. But hey that's just Latins, there are many others in Southern Europe who have done a lot.

When it comes to the current state of affairs, I think I've already made my opinion clear as to why our part of the continent is the way it is today. Just look at East and West Germany and you get a clear example of what I'm talking about. It's a good one to analyze simply because East Germany (The former mighty Prussia) used to be the wealthiest and most advanced of the German kingdoms and indeed the catalyst of German unification and global expansion. Look at it 17 years ago though! They were more backward than your former Yugoslavia... Things change and that has nothing to do with climate. Unless of course you are talking about the socio-political climate and overall societal stability/unity...
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Old July 12th, 2007, 05:25 PM   #77
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I think you all need to stop idealising the north. Wages might be higher but quality of life is not necessarily. Everythings cyclical and changes all the time.
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Old July 12th, 2007, 05:50 PM   #78
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Anto, you can clearly see from my posts that I'm not idealising the north. Quite the opposite actually...
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Old July 13th, 2007, 01:40 AM   #79
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Our problem is that we don't have the possibility the use our wise guys and we don't want to press out our mental possibilities.And we are a hot point,so here always is ethnical fights and outer pressure.
We are not big enough and our population is small,we had too many catastrophes as Turnovec said which stopped our progress-in the beginning of the 20th century Europe talked about "Bulgarian miracle" and the new Japan,but after that.....
Also,the most important-there are always too many ****ers which want to screw the people with ambition and faculties,people which are really capable are smothered up.
And as a conclusion we are not united (as a separate nation and the region through).We are like a drove and we need a person to lead us-but that person is not born everyday.That's the sad truth I think.
ooo,and our nation don't have motivation and optimism,so where are we going???
As Vasil Levski wrote "People????"
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Old July 13th, 2007, 02:12 AM   #80
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all the things you say are right guys but I think U're missing the essence

Why are we like sheep and they are not?!
Why are we prone (more prone) to be ruled by a dictators and they are not?
Why did we have communism and they didn't?

Why does this

Quote:
Originally Posted by nilix View Post
Also,the most important-there are always too many ****ers which want to screw the people with ambition and faculties,people which are really capable are smothered up.
happen much more often here than there?

Why are there no circumstance at home for our bright minds to do their best performances?
Why are we not more united as nations and as a region?
Why are we small?
Why are we fragmented?!

The answers to all these questions are somewhat complex however the common denominator are the people, the Balkanians. These things don't just happen to us because of some cosmical conspiracy or some constant bad luck, but are a direct results of our mentality, our petty nationalism, our system of values etc.

And if sometimes it seems that its the outsiders causing us our misfortunes you are wrong. The outsiders are simply using our weaknesses to assert their interests and you can't blame them for that, but it's us thet are maintaining these weakenesses and our victim mentality as part of our folclore, it is us maintaining our voulneabrility with passion. We are more keen on trying to find the reasons for our current state of affairs in various external factors than to see what the hell are we doing wrong and try to change those wrongdoings.

I'm not admiring the Northerns/Westerners nor am I having a complex of lower value. People that have been long enough on this forum know that agains all odds, I'm very Balkan patrotic and I'm optimistic about our region and its ability to transform into a good place to live.
However I'm just trying to be realistic about the reasons why are we and them on the different endpoints of the "1st world" (some of us are theoretically not in it but...).

Also I think we divirted from the initial second topic (the first topic is Yerevan).

All I said is that in some cases the weaknesses can turn into strenghts. And I simply said that what might have looked as a weakness historically for the northern nations in comparising to the mighty southern ones is perhaps one of the reasons (not the sole one) why are where they are today and we are where we are today. That's all...
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