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Old July 13th, 2007, 02:48 AM   #81
Thunderbolt55
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US got rich because of World Wars + Oil (after WWII US has 60% of the worlds overall production) 60% 60%!!!!!!!!!

W. Germany got rich because of US
Japan got rich because of US
France Britain got rich indirectly because of US
Scandinavia got rich indirectly because region got rich because of US


Poland, Bulgaria etc.. got poor because of communism.
If Bulgaria was West and Greece was soviet things would be vice versa.

If you don't believe me let's make an experiment:
Let's take a hard working nation a northern one divide the country into half give one part to US and give the other part to Soviets and see what happens:
Hey wait, we already have that one right! See same Germans, (all blond ) got unbelivably poor with Soviet system and dramatically rich with US support
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Old July 13th, 2007, 02:57 AM   #82
nilix
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We have a Bulgarian saying "Everything that doesn't kill me makes me stronger"!
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Old July 13th, 2007, 03:34 AM   #83
Dulgeroff
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Dewrob,

The answer to all the questions you asked once more lies in the shatter-belt theory. It's all about location, who your neighbours are and what cultural distance there is between you and them... When that distance is large we all know what happens! Fortunately in the modern world we are all moving closer to one another by way of globalization and indeed today we are witnessing the "almost" mature development what can be termed a global cosmopolitan culture. Anyhow, the Balkans are a place where until recently socio-cultural clashes have been on a scale that has not been experienced in Western Europe since WWII. That's my $0.02... ... ...
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Old July 13th, 2007, 04:34 AM   #84
Kapedani
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I agree 100% with Dulgeroff. The "climate" theory in itself can be discarded simply because if that was the case....northern European would have been advanced thousands of years ago...and not 200-300 years ago. The Mediterranean was where just about every development in culture, technology and so forth happened for thousands of years...while the people in northern Europe were just barbarians still hitting each other with clubs. Their biggest achievements are some freaking dung hills in England and some rocks piled on each other...Even in Albania the Illyrians were building amphitheaters and advanced armies at this time.

The "clash of cultures" at that time favored the Mediterranean...since everybody could steal ideas from everybody else...it was the globalisation of those days...while Northern Europe was isolated.

But then Souther Europe suffered from the periodic fluctuations of history...the barbarian hordes that came through like clockwork every few centuries or so...came back once more and started the process of destroying the cultures of the Mediterranean. The final nail in the coffin was given by Christianity...which tore those cultures apart.

Northern Europe...then boroughed whole the cultures of Rome...

England and Germany did not become more developed because of some superiority in culture...they become developed only the last few centuries because of might of arms.

As for the Balkans...even with the barbarian hordes of late antiquity...the slavic invasions of later on...Christianity...we still would have developed the same way as the rest of Europe...if it weren't for the Ottoman Empire. 500 years of almost no development isn't anything small...Albania, Macedonia and Bulgaria of course were the hardest hit too.

So there are many reasons...but the last of these reasons...is some "genetic" or "cultural" superiority of anyone. Everyone has their day of glory...and that goes away for whatever reason.
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Old July 13th, 2007, 05:04 AM   #85
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Yerevan All EE cities should follow this example.
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Old July 13th, 2007, 09:59 AM   #86
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Yerevan looks well and I see that it grows very nice !
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Old July 13th, 2007, 08:32 PM   #87
Dulgeroff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kapedani View Post
Everyone has their day of glory...and that goes away for whatever reason.
Very true! There is birth, growth, maturity, old age and finally death... The interesting fact about cultures on the Balkans is that many have been 'alive' for thousands of years, and even under the knife of foreign transgressors these cultures have managed to avoid death. That in itself says something!

In a way, perhaps the greatest measure of a culture is not its current prosperity or lack thereof as encompassed within what can only be described as a snapshot in time relative to the total length of human history, but rather its ability to survive the tides of time, even the worst of these, whilst others whilt away or simply fall at terminal velocity from the heights of their former glory... ... ...
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 04:19 PM   #88
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[QUOTE=Dulgeroff;14226449]
"Actually, according to various academic studies the Northern European countries, including ones such as Germany, were the least developed in Europe at all times of the continent's civilized history except for the last 200-300 years. "

DulgeroffAbout German history: simply check out Wikipedia.com to find out, what nonsense you spread:
The German knights were the most important ranks in all crusades (that dates back to 1100 – so Germans were among the best developed peoples 900 years ago! Just because you never heard of it, it doesn’t necessarily mean, that it’s not happened!

But let us go much further back: in 2001 the Sky Disc of Nebra (Saxony, middle Germany) was fond. It dates back to around 1600 BC and proves, that the Germanic tribes back then knew a whole lot about astronomy. This Disc proves the roman and Christian propaganda about the “barbarians” from the North were all lies. Find out about the Disc: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebra_sky_disk

In general one must say, that the aims fo civilization of modern times comes from the North or Mid-Europe, and it has been supported by a class of Nobles and later on Scientists who to a high degree are of German heritage. Most of Europe’s Nobels are of German origin. The fruitful times of Mediterrean is far back, and no more roots/genetic links proved to people living there nowadays. It’s that easy, sorry to say.

Then you say:
"I believe that the main reason these countries are better off today is because they are not placed in a so-called geographical shatter-belt wherein critically ‘opposed’ religions/cultures/civilizations clash and create centrifugal forces that tear "these" regions apart and consequently stimulate instability. The answer to this dilemma lies not in climate, but once again in the shatter-belt theory!"

Your shattered-belt-theory proves nonsense, too. If you (again) check out the history of Germany’s territory, you’ll find out what raids and dreadful wars were going on there – during all periods. To start with the Huns and the Mongolians, then Christianization plus Inquisition later on, invasion from the East until the endless wars going on (1618-1648 the Swedes fell in etc. etc). that region was constantly at war, but remarkably NOT because they caused it, bur for they were attacked continuously. So how come they developed that well?
For they have a different mentality from the Balkans - just like some pointed out here. It’s that simple. It’s not always the circumstance, but also one’s own attitude.


"In ancient times the Balkans (SEE) were the epicenter of "Europe's" development. I dare say that the contribution to culture, literature and science is greater than that which has come from the Northern countries. "

Certainly, the oppression by the Turks caused a long period of total darkness. Maybe that even influenced the mentality of those peoples, they’re surely mixed with the oppressors


"It's a good one to analyze simply because East Germany (The former mighty Prussia) used to be the wealthiest and most advanced of the German kingdoms and indeed the catalyst of German unification and global expansion. Look at it 17 years ago though! They were more backward than your former Yugoslavia..."

If your ideas touch German parts under Communist oppression – even there they were one of the best states in that system. So it’s not just the circumstance, but the energy of a people and their focusing on important things, not just good cars, fun and a little drink as someone described the Balkans here.
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 04:30 PM   #89
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@ Turnovec, Dulgeroff, Kapedani, Thunderbolt55

Hey guys, you’re chauvinistic boasting is not justified: I wonder, why so many of your countrymen come to Germany in order to live on our social money? Seems they’re not the hard-working ones? They rather let the Germans work.

@ THUNDERBOLT55:

NO – Germany did not become rich because of the US – quite the opposite, AFTER the war, Germany was smashed even more: they stole our gold-reserves, our industry was detached by the Russians to the very last screw (no joke, they “took” complete industrial plants with them) and the so called “Marshall Plan” to support Germany’s economy was paid by the Germans themselves – with the stolen gold from the Reichsbank! Germany still pays reparation for the WW I – in 2008 (!!) T

he Americans stole thousands of our scientific patents: http://www.read-all-about-it.org/arc...r_secrets.html

and forced our scientists to work for them. The Russians were much less diplomatic, they simply put them in prison and forced them to work for them.

Without German brains, the Americans had never touched the Moon, this is even admitted by American astronauts.

There you are!
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 10:13 PM   #90
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I like the way Yerevan is growing, very classy, but I expected more people on the streets to give it that metropolitan buzz...you know.

Ilse, we're not dissing the 'master race'...just saying throw us a bone too.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 11:54 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mirko1443 View Post
I like the way Yerevan is growing, very classy, but I expected more people on the streets to give it that metropolitan buzz...you know.

Ilse, we're not dissing the 'master race'...just saying throw us a bone too.
They just killed 8 there yesterday. That's why!
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Old March 4th, 2008, 12:02 AM   #92
Ivanski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilsa_1 View Post
I wonder, why so many of your countrymen come to Germany in order to live on our social money? Seems they’re not the hard-working ones? They rather let the Germans work.
Well most of the livin' in your social money are actually roma . But when they go to Germany for instance you send em back to us. But you're saying that we are not tolerant enough and suck at integration.
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Last edited by Ivanski; March 4th, 2008 at 02:15 PM.
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