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Old October 23rd, 2008, 11:33 PM   #141
tampasteve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing View Post
8.5m annually? That's terrible...
For a city of that size and for the length of the route it operates it is a great amount of people. An extension to the airport would increase ridership dramatically.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicagoago
It is a terrible system. I don't understand what kind of system has NO ONE working in any of the stations? I know it's automated, but what if something went wrong? When I got stuck at a station on the monorail in Vegas we were at the end of the line. You would have thought someone would be at a station if it's the last one on the route.
That sounds terrible. However, I have been on the LV monorail several times and some of the stations were manned. I specifically remember the Harrahs/IP station being manned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier
Light-rail could work very well in Las Vegas. THe monorail doesn't work well because it is not subsidized enough, meaning that ticket fares are way too high, and it doesn't have the breadth of coverage to attract a lot of riders.

I say tear down the entire monorail and build a new one going from McCarran Airport all the way DT to Fremont Street along Las Vegas Blvd.
LRT would be great in Vegas but tearing down the monorail would be an increadible waste of money. It makes more sense (under your plan) to keep it there and have the county/city/state buy it from the investors and at the same time extend it to the airport and DT. With that said though, the cost of a ride is WAY too high right now.....but it is cheaper than a taxi in LV.

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Old October 24th, 2008, 04:14 AM   #142
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The Las Vegas Monorail is a private company. Transit buses in the Las Vegas region are operated by the Regional Transportation Commission (RTC) of Southern Nevada, which is a government agency. The RTC recently looked at establishing a transit line along an abandoned rail line that extends from Henderson to North Las Vegas and passes alongside the resort corridor. The RTC looked at three possibilities for the transit line:

1. Commuter Rail
2. Light Rail
3. Bus Rapid Transit

The RTC selected Bus Rapid Transit. For more information, see the following website:

http://www.rtcsouthernnevada.com/transit/ace.cfm

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Old October 24th, 2008, 06:14 AM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Heh heh

When Vancouver's automation of its LRT network would break down, it would take no less than one pair of trembling operators per train there to drive the units no faster than 15KPH for several hours on end, come two hours into the automation failure.....this used to really .... me off, coz what passenger wants his train driven by some pair of Canadianised Laurel and Hardy who've both clearly forgotten how to, all while overhearing cocked-up dispatches over walkie-talkies substituting for track signalling, right?
Ummm... honestly if you don't know the system, don't say anything. For your information, there are SkyTrain operators working at the stations at most times of the day. When the system does break down, trains can be manually driven at full speeds from either the Control Centre or on the train. You are talking about a snowstorm that happened twice in Vancouver. The SkyTrain system hardly breaks down, and even if it does, it is never because of any "automation failure." It's usually because of problems regarding the track or communication problems between the trains and the computer. Many of these problems are fixed within an hour. We've had a major incident once because of the snowstorm and overcrowding of passengers on a train causing a computer to overheat causing a huge delay of trains for about two hours, but please, every metro system has had it's own share of problems.
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Old October 24th, 2008, 07:56 PM   #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
Ummm... honestly if you don't know the system, don't say anything.
It's no longer my system, which pleases me.....no matter how hard one (you) try to, rewriting my history with the network simply doesn't happen...




Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
For your information, there are SkyTrain operators working at the stations at most times of the day.
The kind of operators I've drawn your attention toward were pared drivers paired, unless Van's heading nowhere ultimately be your drift for catchin' here......wanna bet the sort that you notice merely being (conservative) spies?




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Originally Posted by deasine View Post
You are talking about a snowstorm that happened twice in Vancouver.
I'd try reverting to pooping outta yer lower end were I you.....I mean, nowadays, do B.C. Van'ers replicate weather over there? your writing's foolish.....hmmm, maybe you've just proven that pesky leaves meddled with Van's magnetic dynamism at moving itself forward.....do, brighten up.




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Originally Posted by deasine View Post
When the system does break down, trains can be manually driven at full speeds from either the Control Centre or on the train.
Really? Knowing how long it took the system operator to achieve this functionality with its network still don't interest me...




Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
it is never because of any "automation failure." It's usually because of problems regarding the track or communication problems between the trains and the computer.
Code:
Semi-automatic != automation
an --uhm-- fault-free formula...




Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
had a major incident once because of the snowstorm and overcrowding of passengers on a train causing a computer to overheat
Classic Canadiana, eh?!? Now what are you relating?




Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
but please
You appear to cope even less when it comes to your shamefully pitiless pleas...
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Last edited by trainrover; October 24th, 2008 at 08:37 PM.
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Old October 25th, 2008, 05:33 AM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by city_thing View Post
8.5m annually? That's terrible...
Thats 22,000 people per day on a line thats only 4 miles long is 5,600 people per mile. That is second only to Boston's light rail line in terms of Ridership per mile. Thats pretty darn good...
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Old October 26th, 2008, 03:57 AM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
It's no longer my system, which pleases me.....no matter how hard one (you) try to, rewriting my history with the network simply doesn't happen...
I did not say it was your system. Read carefully.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
Ummm... honestly if you don't know the system, don't say anything
Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
The kind of operators I've drawn your attention toward were pared drivers paired, unless Van's heading nowhere ultimately be your drift for catchin' here......wanna bet the sort that you notice merely being (conservative) spies?
I don't even want to comment on the stupidity of that statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
Code:
Semi-automatic != automation
an --uhm-- fault-free formula...
So what's your point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trainrover View Post
You appear to cope even less when it comes to your shamefully pitiless pleas...
I don't usually comment on one's English language, but that does not make any sense whatsoever. I can tell you that your stupid comments and rebuttals [Actually, I take that back, it's not even a rebuttal] doesn't make you look any smarter than a forum fool. Just stop it now, especially spreading incorrect information everywhere around.

Automation is not necessarily a bad thing, it's just on how it is introduced and managed. Evidently, the company that owns the Las Vegas Monorail is trying to cut costs by not hiring enough staff to look over the system.
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Old October 27th, 2008, 05:45 AM   #147
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Looking at operational and maintenance costs alone, they are actually making 29% more. Is there any other transit system in the US which even manages to cover its operational and maintenance costs by fare and advertising costs alone? OK so it has failed as an investment, but heck even our airlines aren't making money now. i think this is pretty good that it has been able to perform so well. And remember, this costs nothing to taxpayers, just the investors.
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Old October 27th, 2008, 07:21 AM   #148
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I took it once just to try. They should have built a VAL on the strip instead of a monorail.
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Old October 28th, 2008, 09:42 PM   #149
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Quote:
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Automation is not necessarily a bad thing
It ain't necessary....plus, by this latest gibberish o' yers, it would appear that bad things amount to some necessity fer yer consumption.
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Old October 29th, 2008, 05:42 AM   #150
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The advantages of automation are so fundamental to providing for safe and efficient operation that automation is applied even on systems with trains that are staffed with onboard human drivers. BART and the DC Metro have trains that normally operate in fully automated mode even though the trains are staffed with drivers. The light rail systems in Philadelphia and San Francisco operate in automated mode through downtown tunnels even though drivers remain onboard to manually operate the trains on above ground segments. The Copenhagen Metro and the Docklands Light Railway are fully automated and do not have drivers cabs but are still staffed with onboard human monitors. The Las Vegas Monorail and Vancouver Skytrain both are fully automated and normally operate without onboard staff.
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Old October 30th, 2008, 03:27 AM   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudship View Post
Looking at operational and maintenance costs alone, they are actually making 29% more. Is there any other transit system in the US which even manages to cover its operational and maintenance costs by fare and advertising costs alone? OK so it has failed as an investment, but heck even our airlines aren't making money now. i think this is pretty good that it has been able to perform so well. And remember, this costs nothing to taxpayers, just the investors.
This is true. But you have to see a majority of tourists use this line: not the residents of Las Vegas. In order to have a successful& sustainable transportation system, it is essential that it caters to both commuters and tourists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by greg_christine View Post
The advantages of automation are so fundamental to providing for safe and efficient operation that automation is applied even on systems with trains that are staffed with onboard human drivers. BART and the DC Metro have trains that normally operate in fully automated mode even though the trains are staffed with drivers. The light rail systems in Philadelphia and San Francisco operate in automated mode through downtown tunnels even though drivers remain onboard to manually operate the trains on above ground segments. The Copenhagen Metro and the Docklands Light Railway are fully automated and do not have drivers cabs but are still staffed with onboard human monitors. The Las Vegas Monorail and Vancouver Skytrain both are fully automated and normally operate without onboard staff.
Thank you. Not only that, you can run the network at a much higher frequency if you have automation. Vancouver SkyTrain can operate safely with a maximum frequency of 30 seconds. During peek hours at times, the average frequency of a SkyTrain is every 45-60 seconds, already much higher than most networks around the world.
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Old October 30th, 2008, 04:21 AM   #152
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the las vegas monorail has low ridership numbers because of both its high prices and its inability to deliver people to places they actually go. i'm sure you could find some short, obscure route in hong kong, singapore, or tokyo, then charge very high prices for the few riders. i'm sure these monorails would fail as well.

it's not an indictment against monorails, public transit, or even las vegas. but if mass transit ran on las vegas boulevard itself, and connected everything between the airport and downtown (for starters), and had additional east-west lines; it'd be hard to see it failing.

why are we even debating automation? we have one obstinate forumer with some absurd perspectives. why would anyone dislike efficiency?
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Old October 30th, 2008, 07:33 PM   #153
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Quote:
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why are we even debating automation? we have one obstinate forumer with some absurd perspectives. why would anyone dislike efficiency?
Who? Moi?

The absurdity here is in denying passengers qualified staff when problem arise.....you bear no respect for safety. The advent of automation stems from greed, not from the practice of eliminating human error.
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Old October 31st, 2008, 06:07 AM   #154
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Quote:
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Who? Moi?

The absurdity here is in denying passengers qualified staff when problem arise.....you bear no respect for safety. The advent of automation stems from greed, not from the practice of eliminating human error.
Automation is a trend that has been advancing for the last century and will continue to grow. Elevators used to have onboard staff but automation eliminated those jobs fifty years ago. There are people mover systems in airports throughout the world that operate without onboard staff and this trend is now spreading to public transit systems.

The Las Vegas Monorail normally operates in fully automated mode but it does have drivers cabs. There was an incident that could have been serious that occurred on one of the trains while it was under manual control. The driver opened the doors on the wrong side of the train with the result that the passengers could have stepped out and dropped forty feet to the ground. The trains actually operate more safely under automated control.

New York JFK Airtrain also normally operates in fully automated mode. There was one fatal accident that occurred while a train was under manual control during the testing of the system. The train had been outfitted with weights to simulate a full load of passengers. An onboard driver applied the brakes too aggressively and a weight slid forward and crushed him. Again, the trains operate more safely under automated control.

There is one major accident that I know of that did happen when a train was under automated control. Drivers on the Washington Metro at one time were given orders to leave the trains in automated mode. During a snow storm, the automation system was not able to adequately control the sliding of a train while braking with the result that it hit another train. The general rule now seems to be that conventional steel wheel on steel rail systems always have onboard staff to intervene should loss of train control occur due to loss of traction at the wheels. Rubber-tired systems such as the Las Vegas Monorail and linear induction motor systems such as JFK Airtrain often are fully automated with no onboard staff.

I periodically read arguments that onboard drivers are necessary to ensure the security of the passengers, but the reality is that drivers generally do not have the luxury of being able to leave their compartments to assist the passengers. Also, many metro systems and most light rail systems do not have passageways between the cars. The driver might be able to assist the passengers in the first car of a train but the passengers in the other cars are on their own.
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Old October 31st, 2008, 07:19 PM   #155
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I can appreciate automation as much as resent it, I guess. It seems that authorities who operate these automatic things have thrown away the keys upon commissioning them into service, and have only vague ideas as to how to operate them manually or, more frighteningly, are incapable of communicating with trapped passengers be there some full breakdown.
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Old November 1st, 2008, 07:18 PM   #156
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Perhaps you're generalising? Our automated metro here has CCTVs with recording capabilities to monitor activities within each carriage (2 per interior) and at both exterior ends of the train to monitor the track in the tunnels (say, in event of a breakdown or collision whereby evacuation is necessary). Personnel are able to communicate to commuters by various means as well as vice-versa.

There is the PA system for operator-to-commuters communication should the need arise (eg. train stalling and evacuation neccessary). Besides that, there is also the Emergency Communication Button for commuter-to-operator communication (4 per carriage) where the commuter need only press a button to speak to one of the staff in the Operations Control Centre. Alternatively, there is always the Roving Officer. He is in charge of customer relations and other rolling-stock related duties in normal operation. In times where the train needs to be manually driven, he is qualified to take control and there have been times when I've boarded a train which was under manual control for certain reasons.

I think it is quite a sweeping statement to say that "authorities who operate these automatic things have thrown away the keys upon commissioning them into service, and have only vague ideas as to how to operate them manually or, more frighteningly, are incapable of communicating with trapped passengers be there some full breakdown". Not all systems are run by the same operators, nor are all automated rolling stock made by the same manufacturers, and as such one should not expect the same standard, be it high or low, to be the general consensus amongst all automated/driverless systems.
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Old November 3rd, 2008, 08:03 PM   #157
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Oh? People actually believed the finance sector to be sensible enough to be running itself properly, and now look at the messes everywhere. Automation came about due to the same penny-pinching rationale.

All I'm saying is run things responsibly, right?
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Old November 5th, 2008, 04:31 AM   #158
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An issue that is more fundamental to safety than automation is grade separation. Light rail supporters often question the safety of automated systems but overlook the inherent risks of grade crossings.
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Old November 5th, 2008, 05:55 AM   #159
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and now look at the messes everywhere.
What messes are you talking about?!
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Old November 7th, 2008, 08:37 PM   #160
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An issue that is more fundamental to safety than automation is grade separation. Light rail supporters often question the safety of automated systems but overlook the inherent risks of grade crossings.
Uh oh....is there/gonna be some likelihood of having automatic LRTs cross at grade?!

No matter how light the town train, not one segment of its route tracking should be asphalted.
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