daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 30th, 2008, 04:37 AM   #161
creil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 343
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by paytonc View Post
What do people have against Dairy Queen? I've only been there a few times as a child, and it never struck me as particularly memorable or offensive. However, I don't remember anywhere near this much whining and moaning when Cold Stone Creamery (another shopping-mall franchise of forgettable frozen milk) opened -- nor when Potbelly and Chipotle almost simultaneously opened. Club Monaco, which you can find even on the godforesaken tundra (i.e., Winnipeg), put up their "coming soon" signs at the same time. So, what's up with all the "there goes the neighborhood" talk?

The way I see it, the owner of the building happens to be a DQ franchisee and sees a cheap profit-making opportunity -- which will help underwrite his grander schemes.
It's not the Dairy Queen itself as much as it is the fact that the whole neighborhood has become so sterilized that it's not worth visiting anymore. The Dairy Queen is just another step towards homogenization. The variety and excitment continues to be sucked out of Mil/Damen/North. Sorry if I stomped on any childhood memories, but this, much like the Bank of America, is a sad development.
__________________
I don't believe in the universe, I only believe in Chicago.
-Steely Dan
creil no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 1st, 2008, 01:06 AM   #162
paytonc
Pragmatist
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DC
Posts: 433
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by creil View Post
It's not the Dairy Queen itself as much as it is the fact that the whole neighborhood has become so sterilized that it's not worth visiting anymore. The Dairy Queen is just another step towards homogenization. The variety and excitment continues to be sucked out of Mil/Damen/North. Sorry if I stomped on any childhood memories, but this, much like the Bank of America, is a sad development.
My point was that I don't have any emotional connection to the brand one way or another. I suspect that those who grew up in Midwestern small towns (and suburbs) do remember it, possibly epitomizing how boring the town was. I'm still surprised that so many people bemoan it but not the other fast-food chains, though -- much less the fashion chains, several of which have only a few locations worldwide. They're definitely bringing in customers from somewhere, though. That stretch of Damen was never all that useful to me, anyways -- can you think of something you loved there that's now gone forever?

I don't know if it's quite so bad as people say, though, since a rising tide has a way of lifting all boats. Plenty of blocks that used to be vacant (like 2100 Division or 1300 Milwaukee) are now hopping with life, and destination restaurants are opening even on Ashland and Western. There are actually even more underground comics stores (to take one example) in the broader neighborhood than there were a few years ago -- and probably actually fewer generic fast-food franchises: I've seen McDonald's, Burger King, and Quizno's close.
__________________
http://westnorth.com

Last edited by paytonc; May 1st, 2008 at 03:10 AM.
paytonc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2008, 04:59 AM   #163
urban_addict
Craving density 24/7
 
urban_addict's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 141
Likes (Received): 0

I don't mind the chains moving in much. I prefer the mix of high-end boutiques, fast-food chains, retail chains, and banking options. As long as the buildings containing these businesses are architecturally homogenous with the rest of the area (i.e. NO PARKING LOTS) I don't care what is in it! Plus many people find a great mix of businesses (local, edgy, cheap, and corporate)to be very pleasing for a neighborhood lifestyle. I live in East Lakeview and rarely leave my area because it has everything from a Coldstone Creamery to a Walgreen's to a Bank of America to an American Apparel... everything anyone could need is all around.

And no offense to the Bucktown/Wicker Park area but your "cool" factor was so over once pop culture caught on. So suck it up that you are becoming like Lincoln Park.
urban_addict no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2008, 10:01 AM   #164
Nat76
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 130
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by paytonc View Post
I don't know if it's quite so bad as people say, though, since a rising tide has a way of lifting all boats. Plenty of blocks that used to be vacant (like 2100 Division or 1300 Milwaukee) are now hopping with life, and destination restaurants are opening even on Ashland and Western. There are actually even more underground comics stores (to take one example) in the broader neighborhood than there were a few years ago -- and probably actually fewer generic fast-food franchises: I've seen McDonald's, Burger King, and Quizno's close.
I know the conversation had died a bit on this thread, but I totally agree. Add Pizza Hut to that list. If anything, we're at least getting rid of the suburban-styled, stand alone buildings surrounded by a parking lot. If people want to gripe about the sterilization of the neighborhood, they can go further back than the last couple of years

From my perspective as someone who moved to WP in 1998, I look at the yuppification that came with the Borderline remodeling, the opening of Oirish pub J. Fitpatricks or Pint or whatever its called these days, Salud, and the closing of the Artful Dodger. I remember the days when prostitutes used to hang out at Wicker Dog, William Restrepo advertised for la Cumbamba by serving food in the middle of the Damen/Milwaukee/North intersection, Danny's on a Saturday night meant 30 people max, Marie's after 2 on Saturday night meant 20 people, you could still buy horchata off the street on Milwaukee, and you could count on the old Puerto Rican guy wearing a Panama hat showing up every day to rant and growl under the Damen el.

Someone who moved there in 1993 would recall the old Estelle's and the diner by where the Blue Note used to be, and other things I would have no idea about.

Someone else who moved in around 1988 would remember the days when cabs would refuse to go past Ashland, flophouses being littered around the neighborhood, and crack.

You can't fight the basic laws of economics. You can delay, but eventually money will win out. It all just means that the types of people who made Wicker Park happen need to do it again elsewhere--Avondale, Bronzeville, Uptown, somewhere--and that hasn't happened yet.
Nat76 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 19th, 2008, 06:41 AM   #165
spyguy
Expert
 
spyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,916
Likes (Received): 97

http://chicagojournal.com/main.asp?S...87&TM=85044.12

Have it your way, Wicker Park
Shuttered Burger King to be replaced by retail

By TIMOTHY INKLEBARGER


Developer Steve Lipe said he plans to bulldoze the shuttered burger shop, at 1480-1484 N. Milwaukee, in the next coming weeks and begin construction on three one-story buildings.

spyguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2008, 06:50 AM   #166
ardecila
Jack-Of-All-Trades
 
ardecila's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: New Orleans/Chicago
Posts: 1,391
Likes (Received): 2

Better than Burger King, admittedly. I like the way the corner storefront echoes the L tracks next door.

However, couldn't they have extended it to 2 or 3 stories? We have 3 and 4 story buildings going up on sidestreets in Wicker Park, so there's no reason a taller building shouldn't be encouraged along Milwaukee.
ardecila no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 20th, 2008, 11:27 PM   #167
urbanpln
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: chicago
Posts: 328
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Better than Burger King, admittedly. I like the way the corner storefront echoes the L tracks next door.

However, couldn't they have extended it to 2 or 3 stories? We have 3 and 4 story buildings going up on sidestreets in Wicker Park, so there's no reason a taller building shouldn't be encouraged along Milwaukee.
I agree with you 100%. I thought I was being unreasonable in thinking the scale of this building was to small. That side of the streets are taller can easily handle a three of four story building. I do understand that the condo market is cool but a multi-level building would look better.
urbanpln no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2008, 07:59 AM   #168
paytonc
Pragmatist
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DC
Posts: 433
Likes (Received): 0

I have talked with the developer: he'd love (his word and emphasis, not mine) to do a multi-story building, and he even has the space to meet the parking requirements. (BK had a parking easement at the back of the lots across the alley.)

However, the condo market is dead and no office tenant can pay the $20/sq. ft. needed to justify the development. He spent months negotiating with doctor groups and got nowhere. The market for multi-story retail isn't quite there yet, either, and that would start to pose a parking-requirement (and vertical circulation) challenge.

In fact, this is in the article: "This is the second time Lipe has appeared before the [Old Wicker Park] committee. Last year he presented plans for a four-story building with ground-level retail and office space for physicians above. The potential tenant, however, chose not to lease the space, Lipe said."
__________________
http://westnorth.com
paytonc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2008, 03:28 PM   #169
urbanpln
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: chicago
Posts: 328
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by paytonc View Post
I have talked with the developer: he'd love (his word and emphasis, not mine) to do a multi-story building, and he even has the space to meet the parking requirements. (BK had a parking easement at the back of the lots across the alley.)

However, the condo market is dead and no office tenant can pay the $20/sq. ft. needed to justify the development. He spent months negotiating with doctor groups and got nowhere. The market for multi-story retail isn't quite there yet, either, and that would start to pose a parking-requirement (and vertical circulation) challenge.

In fact, this is in the article: "This is the second time Lipe has appeared before the [Old Wicker Park] committee. Last year he presented plans for a four-story building with ground-level retail and office space for physicians above. The potential tenant, however, chose not to lease the space, Lipe said."
I knew the market shaped the project and I know time is money when you buy a site like this one but, I just wish we had a little more patience in this country. We will see many developments that we don't like that are planned and built during this downturn in the real estate market.
urbanpln no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2008, 08:01 PM   #170
The Urban Politician
The City
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 5,935
Likes (Received): 21

^ I don't know about that.

The beauty of a real estate downturn is just that--less stuff gets built
The Urban Politician no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 21st, 2008, 11:08 PM   #171
urbanpln
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: chicago
Posts: 328
Likes (Received): 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Urban Politician View Post
^ I don't know about that.

The beauty of a real estate downturn is just that--less stuff gets built
My point is that in some areas of the city, especially the southside, real estate developers will go with the fast and easy way to make a buck on land they own or want. I can't blame them in some cases because of the economic impact. I am working on some redevelopment deals that were supposed to be mixed use but, now that the market is slow the developers want to build strip malls or one level retail building. I don't have a problem with one level retail developments but, some areas or commercial strips on the mid-south side should be built up with some moderate to high density mixed use developments. Hyde Park, North Kenwood, Oakland and, Douglas are all important communities that will help bring some vibrancy further into the southside. Plans have been developed for major strips like Cottage Grove Avenue and Harper Court. In some cases the developers have the upper hand and will try to water down a good project because they know many of the elected officials need economic development to stay in office. During these bad economic times many good plans are altered. In some cases they become better and, in certain situations they can change the momentum of good planning efforts.
urbanpln no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old June 22nd, 2008, 08:56 AM   #172
paytonc
Pragmatist
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DC
Posts: 433
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanpln View Post
I just wish we had a little more patience in this country.
Yeah, the irony is that real estate really is a much longer-term play than almost anyone realizes: you have to hold land for decades, even centuries, in order to really see value. The great family real estate empires of NYC realize this, but hardly anyone else in America does -- least of all the skittish banks.
__________________
http://westnorth.com
paytonc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 3rd, 2008, 08:11 AM   #173
spyguy
Expert
 
spyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,916
Likes (Received): 97

http://www.chicagojournal.com/main.a...93&TM=4147.833

Transit oriented means taller in Logan Square
Milwaukee master plan calls for denser development

By TIMOTHY INKLEBARGER


Logan Square residents got their first look at a draft long-term development plan for Milwaukee Avenue on Tuesday. While some praised the plan, others said it calls for buildings that are too tall and dense.

The Milwaukee Avenue Corridor Plan lays out development guidelines for the stretch of Milwaukee from Western to California.

One section of the plan that turned into a hot-button issue at the Tuesday meeting, held at the Congress Theater in Logan Square, calls for transit-oriented developments at the El stops at Western and California. Such developments are typically taller and denser-about seven to 14 stories-and are located within a quarter mile of the train station. With El stations at California and Western, the quarter mile boundary could include much of the corridor.
spyguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 17th, 2008, 10:09 PM   #174
spyguy
Expert
 
spyguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 6,916
Likes (Received): 97

http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.co...ws.pl?id=31025

Developer seeks OK to make Bucktown building a hotel
By Alby Gallun, Sep. 17, 2008


A city panel on Friday will consider a plan to convert the tallest building in Bucktown into a 90-room hotel, a project that has yet to receive the blessing of the neighborhood’s alderman.

Wicker Park developer MCM Realty Ltd. has asked the Zoning Board of Appeals to approve a special-use permit for the redevelopment of Northwest Tower, a 12-story Art Deco office building at 1600-1608 N. Milwaukee Ave. The project would round out Bucktown, a once gritty neighborhood now known for its expensive homes, trendy restaurants and high-end boutiques — but no hotels.
spyguy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 18th, 2008, 07:26 PM   #175
jpIllInoIs
Registered User
 
jpIllInoIs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 649
Likes (Received): 48

^ I hope that hotel plan goes thru. great additions to the retail/night life of bt.
jpIllInoIs no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 21st, 2008, 04:27 PM   #176
nomarandlee
My Mind Has Left My Body
 
nomarandlee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: 1060 W. Addison, City by the Lake
Posts: 7,209
Likes (Received): 2761

Quote:
http://www.suntimes.com/news/transpo...park20.article

Full steam ahead on park
BLOOMINGDALE TRAIL |
City seeks designs to turn old rail route into a bike-and-people-friendly green space

September 20, 2008

BY MARY WISNIEWSKI Transportation Reporter [email protected]
The old railroad right-of-way that runs east and west along Bloomingdale Avenue on the Northwest Side could become a "linear park" for bicyclists and pedestrians once the city puts together the design and the funding.

The city plans to seek proposals from engineers and architects by the end of the year to examine building a 2.7-mile "Bloomingdale Trail" along unused Canadian Pacific tracks from Ridgeway on the west to the Chicago River on the east.

Andrew Vesselinovitch, director of the urban parks program for the Trust for Public Land, said the Bloomingdale Trail would provide a crucial east-west link for bicyclists and pedestrians. Many of the city's bike paths run north and south.

The preliminary plans include new parks along the trail, including one in a weedy, unused concrete parking lot at Milwaukee and Bloomingdale. Other parks are planned at Albany, Damen, Marshfield and Kimball.

Eight access points would allow visitors to get on and off the elevated trail, which would pass through the neighborhoods of Logan Square and Bucktown..........
..
__________________
Stephane Charbonnier, “I'd rather die standing up than live on my knees.”
nomarandlee no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old September 22nd, 2008, 02:41 AM   #177
creil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Chicago
Posts: 343
Likes (Received): 1

http://www.bloomingdaletrail.org/
__________________
I don't believe in the universe, I only believe in Chicago.
-Steely Dan
creil no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 15th, 2008, 10:20 PM   #178
i_am_hydrogen
muted
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago
Posts: 7,080
Likes (Received): 203

FYI...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Attrill View Post
For the last year or so our Alderman has been working with a planning firm, URS, and residents on a new plan for my neighborhood. I was a little skeptical of the whole process, but am pretty happy with the zoning changes they are proposing. It is all focused on Transit Oriented Development, which makes sense given the 2 El stops and 5 bus lines in the area.

Here are links to PDFs of the plan and appendix - both are pretty long, but full of fun graphs and charts, and you can get a lot out of just skimming them.

Plan
Appendix

This seems like something people on this forum would be interested in, and I'm interested in what everything thinks of this plan.
__________________
flickrgallery
i_am_hydrogen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2008, 08:13 PM   #179
paytonc
Pragmatist
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DC
Posts: 433
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpIllInoIs View Post
^ I hope that hotel plan goes thru.
I hope a different hotel plan goes through. That developer is the very picture of "scumbag developer" and his "boutique hotel operator" doesn't know what he's doing. The neighborhood deserves better.
__________________
http://westnorth.com
paytonc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2008, 10:17 PM   #180
paytonc
Pragmatist
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: DC
Posts: 433
Likes (Received): 0

The ZBA approved the hotel special use permit. Here's a puffy PR piece about the hotel operator's sole other venture, in South Beach:

http://www.hotel-online.com/News/PR2...outhBeach.html
__________________
http://westnorth.com
paytonc no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 06:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu