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View Poll Results: Which is your favorite?
Torre Agbar, Barcelona 82 33.88%
30 St Mary Axe (Swiss Re), London 160 66.12%
Voters: 242. You may not vote on this poll

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Old November 18th, 2005, 10:52 PM   #41
Urban Dave
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Torre Agbar was second best skyscrapers of 2004 , after Taipei 101.

Great GlobalJoe! Jean Nouvel wanted the building to look like a geiser! Dont' forget that it's the Heathquarters for a water supply company!
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Old November 18th, 2005, 11:01 PM   #42
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St,Mary Axe gets my vote its really classy and the colors are ok but the Torre Agbar just looks like an oversized purple/red ***** it honestly doesnt look so impressive except at night the lighting is great. Please people dont design building if your horny.

Last edited by I-275westcoastfl; November 18th, 2005 at 11:06 PM.
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Old November 18th, 2005, 11:43 PM   #43
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Of course I dont hate Swiss Re, its a thousand times better that the average boring boxy skyscraper and it really stands out in Londons skyline, its just that I find agbar tower more daring in its design. I dont really see it that Phallic anyway,It looks more like a bullet or even a lipstick.
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Old November 19th, 2005, 02:24 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlobalJoe
Of course I dont hate Swiss Re, its a thousand times better that the average boring boxy skyscraper and it really stands out in Londons skyline, its just that I find agbar tower more daring in its design. I dont really see it that Phallic anyway,It looks more like a bullet or even a lipstick.
Yes, it is similar to a bullet or lipstick not to a dick!

I don't know if people saying Agbar is phallic, have seen many "*****"... LOL

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Old November 19th, 2005, 09:56 AM   #45
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Swiss Re is much more attractive. Torre Agbar looks cheap and messy, while Swiss Re looks elegant.
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Old November 19th, 2005, 11:02 AM   #46
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St. Mary's Axe. The shape is more pleasant, and looks cleaner. Torre Agbar looks dirty to me...
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Old November 19th, 2005, 09:49 PM   #47
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I have to say that the Swiss Re gets my vote. The Agbar tower looks nice, especially with the lighting, but the Swiss Re looks more elegant and clean with the facade than the Agbar.. although I would not mind an Agbar Tower here in LA!!
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Old November 20th, 2005, 03:19 AM   #48
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Swiss Re is a lot better looking than the Torre Agbat imo
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Old November 20th, 2005, 03:39 AM   #49
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Swiss Re all the way
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Old November 20th, 2005, 04:50 AM   #50
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What about the issue of context?

One issue that I think should be considered whenever judging the success of a particular building is how the building relates/interacts with its surroundings.

I've haven't been to London or Barcelona in years so I can't comment knowledgeably about this aspect of the Foster and Nouvel buildings.

While I don't disagree with some of the criticisms that have been expressed about the Nouvel building, part of the reason I voted for it is because of how it "fits" within the context of Barcelona.

Specifically, I think Nouvel's project is more contextual than Foster's because of the way it relates to that other Barcelona landmark, Sagrada Familia. The fact that you can line up the two buildings in a photograph and essentially "complete" the unbuilt parabolic tower of Sagrada Familia is brilliant.

As such, my impression is that Swiss Re could have been built anywhere - New York, Tokyo, Sao Paulo. Torre Agbar, however, could have only been built in Barcelona, where it responds to the unique architectural tradition of the city.

I'd like to hear people's comments on the context of the two buildings rather than continue to talk about how attractive one is over the other. Conceptually and contextually, I think Nouvel's project has far more depth to it than Foster's.

What say you?
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Old November 20th, 2005, 05:09 AM   #51
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Agbar looks incredible at night - probarbly one of the best lit highrises in the world.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 05:14 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjfox2002
Tacky??

Lol.

Well, this 'tacky' building has won several major awards including the RIBA Stirling Prize (one of the most prestigious architectural awards on the planet). It's also been voted the Best European Skyscraper by SSC forumers, and the Best Skyscraper of 2003 by Emporis.com.

You're in the minority if you hate this building. There are some people who, unfortunately, just don't seem to "get" SwissRe. The overwhelming majority, though, can appreciate the amazing design of this building and the way it's revolutionised London's skyline.
Swiss Re is beautiful and all but i think you have badly overrated it. Torre is so much better at night but looks so messy during the day. Still, I feel you are treating it as if it is gods gift to all of mankind.
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Old November 20th, 2005, 01:13 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by .::G!oRgOs::.
Swiss Re is beautiful and all but i think you have badly overrated it.
I don't think so.

I agree with David Littlejohn of the Wall Street Journal, who called it "the most ingenious and elegant new skyscraper anywhere in the world for at least 30 years..."

And I think he's right. When you look back over the last few decades, how many skyscrapers have REALLY caught the public's attention, and received so much praise? Not that many, you have to admit (unless you're a skyscraper geek).

Bank of China Tower, Petronas Towers, Burj Al Arab... maybe a few more. SwissRe is definitely amongst this small group.


Quote:
Originally Posted by .::G!oRgOs::.
I feel you are treating it as if it is gods gift to all of mankind.


That's because it is

j/k
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Old November 20th, 2005, 01:25 PM   #54
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While I don't agree that it is "the most ingenious and elegant new skyscraper anywhere in the world for at least 30 years..." I do have to agree that it is up among some of the best. The whole 'gherkin' thing escapes me as the shape is nothing like a gherkin if anything it's like a large fabrache egg. As for Torre Agbar, yes it does look like an oversized ***** but I agree with Quente contextually it is more successful than SwissRe but if you just single out Swiss's design and ignore its surrounds I would have to say it beats Torre Agbar.
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Old November 21st, 2005, 12:54 AM   #55
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Last edited by hush; November 21st, 2005 at 01:12 AM.
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Old November 21st, 2005, 08:33 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quente
I'd like to hear people's comments on the context of the two buildings rather than continue to talk about how attractive one is over the other. Conceptually and contextually, I think Nouvel's project has far more depth to it than Foster's.

What say you?
I say.......it's the story of the Emperor's new clothes, writ anew.

You can try to convince me however you may. But my eyes will not be fooled. Swiss Re is a beautiful building. Torre Agbar is not.

End of story.
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Old November 22nd, 2005, 02:32 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimB
I say.......it's the story of the Emperor's new clothes, writ anew.

You can try to convince me however you may. But my eyes will not be fooled. Swiss Re is a beautiful building. Torre Agbar is not.

End of story.


Sure I was trying to convince people - to see past the aesthetics and offer their thoughts on the context and concept of the two buildings. I thought it would be helpful to move the discussion beyond comments such as, "It's a beautiful building", "It looks like a *****", etc., which are certainly valid but were starting to get redundant.

Since these buildings are not located in a void they interact in some way with their environments; I'm asking people to comment on that aspect of the two projects.

Evidently, you don't have much to say on this topic, so I'm not sure why you bothered to comment. I'm glad that you have good eyesight but I'm not asking you to use your eyes - I'm asking you to use your head.

Kent

Last edited by Quente; November 22nd, 2005 at 02:51 AM.
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Old November 22nd, 2005, 02:07 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quente


Sure I was trying to convince people - to see past the aesthetics and offer their thoughts on the context and concept of the two buildings. I thought it would be helpful to move the discussion beyond comments such as, "It's a beautiful building", "It looks like a *****", etc., which are certainly valid but were starting to get redundant.

Since these buildings are not located in a void they interact in some way with their environments; I'm asking people to comment on that aspect of the two projects.

Evidently, you don't have much to say on this topic, so I'm not sure why you bothered to comment. I'm glad that you have good eyesight but I'm not asking you to use your eyes - I'm asking you to use your head.

Kent
Thanks for the lecture, Kent, but it was quite unnecessary, I can assure you.

You see, the problem is that you're overcomplicating the matter. I see it all the time. Doesn't matter whether we're talking literature, fine art, music, film or architecture. There's always someone who will say, "Ignore your senses. Rationalize it. That's what's really important". And I say, "Bullshit".

I know a good story when I read one. I know a good tune when I hear it. I know a building to be beautiful or ugly or indifferent when I see it. I can rely on my senses. I don't need endless explanations of context or history or philosophy or contemporary rational debate to tell me that I should like something that I don't like. Because the minute that any work of art needs such explanations, it is an admission of failure. Any work of art should stand on its own legs (figuratively speaking). Of course context or history or philosophy can enrich it and give it added layers of meaning. But the bottom line is that it must have sufficient merit in its own right to be worthy of deeper inspection.

And, in my humble opinion, Torre Agbar does not earn that right.

You say that Torre Agbar is ideally located in order to "complete" Gaudi's vision. That may well be. But did Torre Agbar have to look exactly as it does? Could the shape not be different, even in the slightest? Could the materials used not be different? Can you not accept that another, far more beautiful building could have been built in Torre Agbar's place which would have been equally true to Gaudi's vision? Unless you can answer an emphatic "no" to each of these questions (and I don't believe that you can), then you cannot champion Torre Agbar on contextual grounds while ignoring aesthetics.
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Old November 22nd, 2005, 02:14 PM   #59
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During the night I prefer Torre Agbar.... but for overall----> 30 st Mary axe
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Old November 22nd, 2005, 05:42 PM   #60
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Swiss Re by a few million billion miles.
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