daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > Highrises

Highrises Discussions of projects under construction between 100-199m/300-649ft tall.
» Proposed Highrises



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old April 5th, 2007, 05:34 AM   #401
Waterloo_Guy
I See Skyscrapers
 
Waterloo_Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,083
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by InTheBeach View Post
Let's face it: the place sucks.
Shittyplace?
Waterloo_Guy no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old April 5th, 2007, 05:38 AM   #402
Electrify
Registered User
 
Electrify's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Markham (Thornhill), Ontario
Posts: 1,689
Likes (Received): 5

Great, all the waterfront needs: more condos separating it from the people. How anyone could have voted for that hypocritical douche Miller is beyond me.

With that said, I am glad to see some new high density urban development near/in downtown. Since this city has such an inadequate transport system, hopefully these condos will help to spur growth of our business district.

EDIT: After seeing some more pics of these, I now know that these are not being built right on the waterfront like some are, so my comments in the first paragraph may have been a little misdirected. However, Miller is still a douche.

Last edited by Electrify; April 5th, 2007 at 05:45 AM.
Electrify no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2007, 07:23 AM   #403
KGB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: TO
Posts: 5,769
Likes (Received): 48

Holy crap...400 posts...I don't even remember what my comments were wherever they may be deep in this thread.

I don't think the city did the greatest job with redeveloping these 100 acres of railway lands. I don't think handing over 45 acres of it to one developer to turn it into "one" project was a good idea....I think they should have taken the Jane Jacobs approach, and gridded it up...and then sold off lots to different developers. I think they just got lazy and picked somebody who could just get it developed, given the decades of failed schemes for it (and much, much worse than this I might add), they were happy to find someone who could.

It might not be the most idealist urban planning, but I don't think it's some kind of complete horror either. Talking about it being a "St jamestown" is just silly, and without basis.




Quote:
Great, all the waterfront needs: more condos separating it from the people.

I know you retracted this re: Cityplace....but regardless, how do waterfront condos "separate" it from the people, when it actually BRINGS people to the waterfront? This arguement never made any sense to me, and I've heard it a million times. Is there a giant fence or something...are there tolls?




Quote:
How anyone could have voted for that hypocritical douche Miller is beyond me.

I don't see how you can link Miller to Cityplace...it was approved long before he was elected.




Quote:
Since this city has such an inadequate transport system, hopefully these condos will help to spur growth of our business district.

I really don't see any connection here...you're from Richmond Hill supposedly...what inadequate transit system are you refering to...York region?? LOL


For someone with such strong words, you don't seem to have a leg to stand on.




KGB
KGB no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2007, 02:23 PM   #404
isaidso
the new republic
 
isaidso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The United Provinces of America
Posts: 29,635
Likes (Received): 10789

DINO: you're awfully rude when you don't hear what you want to hear.

Clueless? Hardly, but I don't intend to get into a mudslinging fight with you.
You may like developments like City Place, but urban people detest it. I grew up in London UK, lived in downtown Montreal, and live in downtown Toronto. I know what urban space is. I don't want suburbia. Why can you not accept that?


Who said I am opposed to banks and pubs and restaurants? The more the better, but NOT in a condo BASE 20 feet or more from the sidewalk. Has the design feature 'apron' never been debated in front of you. It is a very important feature of an urban streetscape. Without it, a street loses it's urban punch and continuity. These are not bizarre concepts that I've come up with myself. These are major topics studied at urban planning departments at top universities. They are crucial but seem to have been overlooked here.

Your reaction to my comments seem to be SO? or you fail to get the crux of the argument? I am sorry, but it leaves people with no other conclusion other than you don't understand these urban planning issues.

People will be at City Place to go to the condo or because they have no other choice other than go through this development to get to the waterfront or ACC. No one is going to sit in front of these towers and have coffee, or shop at the non-existent NIKE store on the condo tower flower bed. They will always be flower beds, or condo drive ways. Urban people want a building there (density), not a driveway, or condo grounds.

Whether it looks good from Centre Island is very very secondary. It has to work at street level. That is where the people will be.

You talk about jogging, skating, and the waterfront. You basically made my point for me. Everything around these towers is good, except the sidewalk in front of the towers. It doesn't work at all. The condo tower part is just a thoroughfare with nothing of interest in it that one has to pass to get to the good stuff: waterfront.

Yes, you'll go to a store in a base of a condo if you need something. I am not arguing that. The amenities may be there, but you've just killed the urban nature of the experience and the urban setting by placing that amenity where it is.

I have every right to dislike suburbs. Where do you get off telling someone they aren't allowed to dislike something? What a proposterous comment.

Hating? Some things you need to stand up for. Canada has thousands if not millions of square kilometres of suburbs. There is precious little urban areas for those that love urban living. Urbanites have a few square kilometres of downtown Toronto, and I'll be damned if someone tells me to shut up when it's being destroyed.

You call it bitching, I call it being a Toronto booster. I suppose you don't even know who Jacobs is.

These boards are for constructive dialogue and for people that genuinely care about the places they live in. That requires an open mind where you are willing to change your perspective on an issue or help change someone elses. It's a place to exhange ideas. Opposing views are important. If everyone on here thought exactly the same thing, this board would amount to nothing more than self masturbation. I am not interested in that. You seem unwilling or unable to contribute anything constructive to this endeavour. You are confrontational and do not address any points I make because I suspect you don't register what is being expressed to you. You just dismiss things you haven't considered, or call people "clueless". I am far from it.

Please do not correspond with me any more. You've wasted enough of my time already.

Last edited by isaidso; April 5th, 2007 at 02:42 PM. Reason: request to refrain
isaidso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2007, 04:49 PM   #405
yyzer
Registered User
 
yyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 1,192
Likes (Received): 42

here's a nice Cityplace pic from flickr, posted by whistler over at SSP:

image hosted on flickr
yyzer no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2007, 05:19 PM   #406
Taller, Better
Administrator
 
Taller, Better's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 70,979
Likes (Received): 12201

Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterloo_Guy View Post
Shittyplace?
Oh God.."Shittyplace" brings back memories of myhotredcardavidmillerismyboss"! His out of town friends apparently reamed him out when they drove in from the airport at how ugly Cityplace was!
I'm sure he will be back any time now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
All in favour of tall, but these buildings are a disaster for Toronto. They are suburban towers in an urban setting. The downtown city grid has been comprimised, the buildings are set back massively from the sidewalk, alot of them are gated, and they are all practically identical glass boxes.

Toronto had the opportunity to create a grand central core. When this development is complete, it will be a vertical gated community that is completely deserted. There will be little street life or energy in this area. It even runs the risk of becoming another St. James Town ghetto 20 years from now.

It will be a suburban wasteland accessible only by car. What a mess!!! The developers don't care, they won't be the ones living down there.
@isaidso, I can understand most of your arguments, but not the one that Cityplace represents "suburbia". This type of high density living is not a suburban idea, but a very urban reality. I have no desire to live in City Place but I think you will find quite a few people do. Is it like living in the Annex? No. But it is also not intended to be.
By the way, isaidso, we have heard this exact same argument before, virtually verbatim, from a couple of members. Is it safe to say that you are not a "newbie" to these forums?
__________________
'Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood."
-architect Daniel Burnman

Last edited by Taller, Better; April 5th, 2007 at 05:31 PM.
Taller, Better no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2007, 06:27 PM   #407
zerokarma
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,511
Likes (Received): 12

Aestheticly there is nothing great about Toronto's Cityplace, I think it looks mostly dull and boring.
__________________
.... Trump Tower Toronto .............. Costa Rica Photos 1, Costa Rica Photos 2
.... if you build it they will come ........ St. Martin/St. Maarten Photos, Aruba Photos
.... www.trumptowertoronto.com ....... St. Lucia Photos, My Complete Photo Album
zerokarma no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2007, 06:39 PM   #408
isaidso
the new republic
 
isaidso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The United Provinces of America
Posts: 29,635
Likes (Received): 10789

Taller, better:

I am new to this site. My first post was March 21st, and I am not familiar with the other similar arguments made by some members here that you referred to.

I would have preferred a large downtown park on that site with high rises surrounding it, but that is obviously not going to happen. I realize that there are alot of people who would want to live in City Place, but I had hoped for a much different vision for that area.

You mentioned the Annex. The Annex isn't my ideal. I am not opposed to the height of City Place condos at all. In fact, I'd prefer much taller in that area than City Place will showcase.

You also say that this type of high density living is not a suburban idea, but a very urban reality. It may be an urban reality, but how can you suggest that it is not suburban? I'm originally from London, UK. In central London, this type of inefficient use of land would be classified as suburban. Is the definition of suburban different in North America? High rise and high density can be very suburban. How is City Place not? What is your definition?

Last edited by isaidso; April 5th, 2007 at 06:42 PM. Reason: sentence reference
isaidso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2007, 07:44 PM   #409
Taller, Better
Administrator
 
Taller, Better's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 70,979
Likes (Received): 12201

If there are areas of high concentration in the suburbs (and Toronto has a lot), then those were an adaptation of downtown living for the suburbs, not the other way round. Suburbs were lowrise sprawl before they came along. I have not the slightest idea how they define city/suburb in London, but I do know for a fact they have a lot of high density areas.
If you are new, welcome to the group!. There is at least one person in our group who will agree with everything you say as his postings have been almost identical!
__________________
'Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood."
-architect Daniel Burnman
Taller, Better no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2007, 10:12 PM   #410
isaidso
the new republic
 
isaidso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The United Provinces of America
Posts: 29,635
Likes (Received): 10789

I get that the high rise high density developments in the suburbs were adaptations of downtown living for the suburbs. Is it accurate that these suburban adaptations sprouted grounds and driveways, etc due to cheaper more abundant land, and that these features were never present in the original downtown developments? It seems a logical progression, but factual?

If my theory is correct. The re-implementation of the suburban adaption has now taken on suburban qualities. By extension, it is now a suburban development despite its original downtown roots.

Thank you for the welcome. It is much appreciated. I would hazard that I have made quite a few enemies already though. Vigorous, lively debate doesn't seem to go over well with some....I've been called every nasty name you could imagine for uttering what to them are extreme, tyrannical affronts on the natural course of things. I'll have to learn to accomodate their fragilities abit better.
isaidso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2007, 10:29 PM   #411
Ithaqua
Registered User
 
Ithaqua's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 261
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzer View Post
here's a nice Cityplace pic from flickr, posted by whistler over at SSP:

image hosted on flickr
Awesome pic.
__________________
Cheers
Ithaqua
Ithaqua no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 5th, 2007, 11:19 PM   #412
Roch5220
My dog rules
 
Roch5220's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Toronto, NYC
Posts: 1,663
Likes (Received): 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I get that the high rise high density developments in the suburbs were adaptations of downtown living for the suburbs. ....
These are stretches. More so, suburban highrise concentrations are more about econcomics and land space versus trying to mimic downtown. In anything, people in the past didn't want to live downtown, why would they have mimiced it?
Roch5220 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 05:34 AM   #413
yin_yang
Registered User
 
yin_yang's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Toronto
Posts: 1,834
Likes (Received): 80

somebody post some streetscape pics, please
yin_yang no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 05:55 AM   #414
Dino Domingo
Canadiense
 
Dino Domingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The T-Dot
Posts: 1,299
Likes (Received): 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
DINO: you're awfully rude when you don't hear what you want to hear.

Clueless? Hardly, but I don't intend to get into a mudslinging fight with you.
You may like developments like City Place, but urban people detest it. I grew up in London UK, lived in downtown Montreal, and live in downtown Toronto. I know what urban space is. I don't want suburbia. Why can you not accept that?


Who said I am opposed to banks and pubs and restaurants? The more the better, but NOT in a condo BASE 20 feet or more from the sidewalk. Has the design feature 'apron' never been debated in front of you. It is a very important feature of an urban streetscape. Without it, a street loses it's urban punch and continuity. These are not bizarre concepts that I've come up with myself. These are major topics studied at urban planning departments at top universities. They are crucial but seem to have been overlooked here.

Your reaction to my comments seem to be SO? or you fail to get the crux of the argument? I am sorry, but it leaves people with no other conclusion other than you don't understand these urban planning issues.

People will be at City Place to go to the condo or because they have no other choice other than go through this development to get to the waterfront or ACC. No one is going to sit in front of these towers and have coffee, or shop at the non-existent NIKE store on the condo tower flower bed. They will always be flower beds, or condo drive ways. Urban people want a building there (density), not a driveway, or condo grounds.

Whether it looks good from Centre Island is very very secondary. It has to work at street level. That is where the people will be.

You talk about jogging, skating, and the waterfront. You basically made my point for me. Everything around these towers is good, except the sidewalk in front of the towers. It doesn't work at all. The condo tower part is just a thoroughfare with nothing of interest in it that one has to pass to get to the good stuff: waterfront.

Yes, you'll go to a store in a base of a condo if you need something. I am not arguing that. The amenities may be there, but you've just killed the urban nature of the experience and the urban setting by placing that amenity where it is.

I have every right to dislike suburbs. Where do you get off telling someone they aren't allowed to dislike something? What a proposterous comment.

Hating? Some things you need to stand up for. Canada has thousands if not millions of square kilometres of suburbs. There is precious little urban areas for those that love urban living. Urbanites have a few square kilometres of downtown Toronto, and I'll be damned if someone tells me to shut up when it's being destroyed.

You call it bitching, I call it being a Toronto booster. I suppose you don't even know who Jacobs is.

These boards are for constructive dialogue and for people that genuinely care about the places they live in. That requires an open mind where you are willing to change your perspective on an issue or help change someone elses. It's a place to exhange ideas. Opposing views are important. If everyone on here thought exactly the same thing, this board would amount to nothing more than self masturbation. I am not interested in that. You seem unwilling or unable to contribute anything constructive to this endeavour. You are confrontational and do not address any points I make because I suspect you don't register what is being expressed to you. You just dismiss things you haven't considered, or call people "clueless". I am far from it.

Please do not correspond with me any more. You've wasted enough of my time already.
We both have opposing views. We are both exchanging ideas. You sit there and tell me I have nothing constructive say and accuse me of not caring about my city. Whatever - if I didn't care I wouldn't have taken the time to stand up for it.

Rude? Nah. I focus on the positive. I'm just not as mad at the world as you are. You come here with all this negativity, and in more than one thread, and you just bitch and complain. You say nothing positive. You're also a hypocrite cuz here I am giving you exactly what you said makes this place great - a debate of opposing views - and then the minute I do that you turn around and cry blasphemy. Trife you are.

I never said you couldn't hate the suburbs. Are you dyslexic? Go back and reread my comments. I was talking about myself. My own self. In fact, it's you who seems to be telling people what they like and don't like. It was you who announced what urbanites want and dont want.

In this forum you speak for yourself, NOT for everyone else.

I don't need your permission to post my comments. Take a hike if you don't like it... how 'bout over to CityPlace?
Dino Domingo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 06:09 AM   #415
Dino Domingo
Canadiense
 
Dino Domingo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: The T-Dot
Posts: 1,299
Likes (Received): 19

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
Taller, better:

I am new to this site. My first post was March 21st, and I am not familiar with the other similar arguments made by some members here that you referred to.

I would have preferred a large downtown park on that site with high rises surrounding it, but that is obviously not going to happen. I realize that there are alot of people who would want to live in City Place, but I had hoped for a much different vision for that area.

You mentioned the Annex. The Annex isn't my ideal. I am not opposed to the height of City Place condos at all. In fact, I'd prefer much taller in that area than City Place will showcase.

You also say that this type of high density living is not a suburban idea, but a very urban reality. It may be an urban reality, but how can you suggest that it is not suburban? I'm originally from London, UK. In central London, this type of inefficient use of land would be classified as suburban. Is the definition of suburban different in North America? High rise and high density can be very suburban. How is City Place not? What is your definition?
New? Gee... I hadn't noticed.

From the U.K.? Well maybe that's why you're so crusty.

If there's one thing I can't stand it's a know-it-all type like yourself. I'm T.O. baby, born and raised. You have some nerve telling locals what they want or don't want. It's a no-brainer there are variances from continent-to-continent on what urbanity is.
Dino Domingo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 06:15 AM   #416
Waterloo_Guy
I See Skyscrapers
 
Waterloo_Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,083
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

You also say that this type of high density living is not a suburban idea, but a very urban reality. It may be an urban reality, but how can you suggest that it is not suburban? I'm originally from London, UK. In central London, this type of inefficient use of land would be classified as suburban. Is the definition of suburban different in North America? High rise and high density can be very suburban. How is City Place not? What is your definition?
That makes no sense at all.
Waterloo_Guy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old April 6th, 2007, 08:21 AM   #417
Taller, Better
Administrator
 
Taller, Better's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 70,979
Likes (Received): 12201

Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post

Thank you for the welcome. It is much appreciated. I would hazard that I have made quite a few enemies already though. Vigorous, lively debate doesn't seem to go over well with some....I've been called every nasty name you could imagine for uttering what to them are extreme, tyrannical affronts on the natural course of things. I'll have to learn to accomodate their fragilities abit better.
Yes, we discover in life that we all have our fragilities, but at the end of the day ( as television hosts are fond of saying), this is just "the internet", and despite all the sturm und drang, all of this is just a bit of a mental exercise and nothing to get seriously wound up about. Take the tyrannical affronts with a grain of salt when you switch off the computer, and don't let it affect your sleep!
__________________
'Make no little plans. They have no magic to stir men's blood."
-architect Daniel Burnman
Taller, Better no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 2nd, 2007, 09:12 PM   #418
isaidso
the new republic
 
isaidso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The United Provinces of America
Posts: 29,635
Likes (Received): 10789

Yep, agreed. Some efforts are a waste of time, better to ignore.
isaidso no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2007, 03:52 AM   #419
Marcanadian
Moderator
 
Marcanadian's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 13,069
Likes (Received): 2585

Let's get some updates here.

07/27/07

Montage and Neo are now U/C together. Update from FunkyTechnician at UrbanToronto.




Marcanadian no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2007, 08:21 AM   #420
isaidso
the new republic
 
isaidso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The United Provinces of America
Posts: 29,635
Likes (Received): 10789

Where will Signature be built in relation to these towers? Signature is to be the tallest, correct?
isaidso no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
cityplace, cityplace development, toronto

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 11:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu