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Old December 11th, 2005, 01:22 PM   #181
Tubeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
Another question.

The subway in Glasgow is the 3rd oldest in the world, after London and Budapest. It is said that the first London Underground line, the Metropolitan line, lent it's name to the globally common term "metro" after cities like Paris called their system the "metropolitan".

Was Glasgow then the first network in the world to be called a "Subway" in which most American subway's were named after?
The first use of the word 'subway' I am aware of was the Tower Subway opened in 1870 under the Thames, which pioneered Greathead's Shield Tunnelling technique. It was only 7ft in diameter and was a cable-hauled railway. Up to this point there had been no true subway lines built in NYC, so the Tower Subway could be presumed to be the first use of this word and therefore the forerunner of all others. All subsequent underground railways in London were referred to as 'railways' though.
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Old December 11th, 2005, 01:34 PM   #182
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Originally Posted by Nephasto
Tubeman, when will the sub surface lines(SSL) starting to receive the new S-Stock?
Will all SSL receive it? When will they all have it?

As for the tube lines, I know that Victoria line was going to have a new rolling stock... but I haven't been following that... How is it?
And what are the traind going to be? Just the same stile as teh 1995/1996 stocks? (I guess, because that was what was planned about a year or more ago).
Any chance of walk-through type trains like the S-Stock?

PS: I don't buy the excuse that the tunnels are too narrow for walk through type trains... some Madrid short profille lines (Lines 1/2/3/4/5 and R) which are also very narrow are going to receive new walk through type trains(series 3000). If they can do it in Madrid, I guess they could do it too in London.
I'm not asking for air conditioning... I know that's very dificult/impossible... But I must say I wonder how they can fit(the A/C units) it in Madrid's small profile lines(the newer 2000 series and future 3000 series)...
Victoria Line will get new trains in 2009 courtesy of Bombardier, they won't look like the Northern and Jubilee '95 / '96 Stocks as these were built by GEC Alsthom. As far as I am aware none of the new stocks will be walk-through unfortunately.

New Victoria Line Trains:



The mock-up I've seen on the new S Stock looks like a Desiro:



...Presumably with more doors per car

Very approximately I think the timetable is as follows:

Metropolitan Line A Stocks > S Stocks 2009
H&C and Circle Line C Stocks > S Stocks 2012
District Line D Stocks > S Stocks 2014

As the S Stock is seemingly going to be a continuation of the huge order for Desiros for suburban railways in Southern England that has just been completed, I think they'll be standard separate cars but with intercommunicating doors you are allowed to walk through. As they will run in 8 (Met), 7 (District), and 6 (H&C / Circle) car sets its impractical for the trains to be totally walk-through, although I see know reason why they can't be permanently coupled in walk-through 3 and 4 car units.
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Old December 11th, 2005, 03:32 PM   #183
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The DLR being extended in the City would be great! Maybe all their success in the east can be funnelled to expensive underground tunneling!

Tubeman, how was Portsmouth? Did you see Spinnaker Tower? I went two weeks ago, and a little disappointed by the view (and the city).
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Old December 11th, 2005, 04:19 PM   #184
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For a long time I was wondering, wouldn't it be possible to integrate the super-short Waterloo&City line with the DLR and thus extend the DLR to Waterloo?
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Old December 11th, 2005, 04:20 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonyuen
The DLR being extended in the City would be great! Maybe all their success in the east can be funnelled to expensive underground tunneling!

Tubeman, how was Portsmouth? Did you see Spinnaker Tower? I went two weeks ago, and a little disappointed by the view (and the city).
I think an extension of the DLR from Bank into the West End would be a good idea, maybe with a terminal loop like at Heathrow stopping at a couple of West End stations (e.g. Charing Cross & Piccadilly Circus). The DLR is tapping into a rapidly growing area of London, but it can only transport them into the City which seems a bit daft. Off-peak the vast bulk would rather go into the West End.

Portsmouth was fine, I've been there a few times (its where my Partner's from). It always has been a very run-down and poor city, so to see developments like Gunwharf Quays and the Spinnaker Tower to me is great (not to mention the awful Tricorn Centre finally being demolished). I actually feel like its very much a city on the move with a lot of new development, having the new Desiros running the Portsmouth to London rail service helps too. I think the Spinnaker's great, not too much to look at apart from some council estates and the Isle of Wight, but its a very bold statement for a city the size of Portsmouth to erect a stylish viewing tower.

I've been meaning to post some pics, but this aint the right thread!
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Old December 11th, 2005, 04:22 PM   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro
For a long time I was wondering, wouldn't it be possible to integrate the super-short Waterloo&City line with the DLR and thus extend the DLR to Waterloo?
Nice idea, but the W&C is Tube Tunnel loading gauge and the DLR is much bigger (taller), so the only way would be to expand the W&C tunnels. It would probably be cheaper just to build a totally new extension for the DLR.
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Old December 11th, 2005, 04:25 PM   #187
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i have 2 questions.

1.Tubeman,so how are you?

2. Whats your view on privatisation of the British Rail? a good thing or bad?
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Old December 11th, 2005, 04:39 PM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
Very approximately I think the timetable is as follows:

Metropolitan Line A Stocks > S Stocks 2009
H&C and Circle Line C Stocks > S Stocks 2012
District Line D Stocks > S Stocks 2014

As the S Stock is seemingly going to be a continuation of the huge order for Desiros for suburban railways in Southern England that has just been completed, I think they'll be standard separate cars but with intercommunicating doors you are allowed to walk through. As they will run in 8 (Met), 7 (District), and 6 (H&C / Circle) car sets its impractical for the trains to be totally walk-through, although I see know reason why they can't be permanently coupled in walk-through 3 and 4 car units.
Those dates are for when the first S-Stock trains arrive at each line, or for when all the trains in the line will be S-Stock?

I've seen renders of the new S-Stock (as you must have seen too) and I seem to remember they were walk through type... I hope they will be.
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Old December 11th, 2005, 04:43 PM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drwho
i have 2 questions.

1.Tubeman,so how are you?

2. Whats your view on privatisation of the British Rail? a good thing or bad?
1) Fine thanks for asking, although I have a cold sore

2) A travesty, a disaster... Privatisation is fine provided Customers have a realistic choice in the products they choose. Railways provide very little competition; if you need to get from York to London you have to use GNER, therefore if you get poor service you have no choice but to keep on using them. British telecom was a success because if BT muck me around, I can go to any number of landline or mobile providers. Therefore the onus has been on BT to keep on improving its service... There is no incentive like this for railway companies.
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Old December 11th, 2005, 04:44 PM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto
Those dates are for when the first S-Stock trains arrive at each line, or for when all the trains in the line will be S-Stock?

I've seen renders of the new S-Stock (as you must have seen too) and I seem to remember they were walk through type... I hope they will be.
I seem to recall those are completion dates... I think the first S Stocks might start appearing on the Metropolitan Line by 2007, by which time the A Stocks will be almost 50 years old!
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Old December 11th, 2005, 07:08 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
I seem to recall those are completion dates... I think the first S Stocks might start appearing on the Metropolitan Line by 2007, by which time the A Stocks will be almost 50 years old!
The A-Stock is the broadest stock in the London Underground, right?
I've just noticed some time ago that the seating is 2-3 on the A-Stock... It must be weird to be in the middle seat of the row of 3.

The S-Stock won'nt be as wide as the A-Stock, right? It's going to have 2-2 seating, I assume...

Thanks alot for this thread Tubeman!
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Old December 11th, 2005, 07:16 PM   #192
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why dont the newer stocks (95/96) have the large windows like the 92 does? Ive always like the large windows of the 92 stock and wondered why the others dont have htem (and from that render, the new victorian stock wont have them either)
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Old December 11th, 2005, 07:33 PM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_storms
why dont the newer stocks (95/96) have the large windows like the 92 does? Ive always like the large windows of the 92 stock and wondered why the others dont have htem (and from that render, the new victorian stock wont have them either)
Because, apparently, people got freaked out by seeing their legs above their heads in the windows.

I've always wondered why they haven't put windows in the ceilings of Tube trains. But then I guess that would be just a little bit too freaky.

Oh the DLR extension into the West End was rumoured to be Bank>Ludgate Circus>Aldwych>Covent Garden which would have been interesting. Also Tower Gateway is still on the cards to be moved underground into the first stretch of the Bank tunnel and the existing station mothballed, allowing a better connection between it, Tower Hill and Fenchurch Street.
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Old December 12th, 2005, 12:17 AM   #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_storms
why dont the newer stocks (95/96) have the large windows like the 92 does? Ive always like the large windows of the 92 stock and wondered why the others dont have htem (and from that render, the new victorian stock wont have them either)
As DarJoLe says, it was due to customer feedback from the 1992 Stocks

An average height adult eyeline is reflected in the opposite window roughly where it bends to follow the roof's curvature, so you get a slightly disconcerting 'hall of mirrors' effect.

Utter crap though, because once you're above ground you don't see very much out of the opposite window on 95s & 96s, whereas you can see rural Essex whizzing by at 100kmh on the 92 Stocks. The cynic in me says that smaller windows = more advertising space (plus advertising closer to the eyeline).

Windows are of little interest other than to see the station you're at on the Victoria Line, as its all subterranean. To extrapolate it further, the very first Tube Trains on the City & South London Railway (King William St to Stockwell) had mere slits for windows as they were, quite logically, deemed useless. People were a bit freaked out though, the dim upholstered interiors rapidly became known as 'padded cells' and windows were introduced.
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Old December 12th, 2005, 12:21 AM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephasto
The A-Stock is the broadest stock in the London Underground, right?
I've just noticed some time ago that the seating is 2-3 on the A-Stock... It must be weird to be in the middle seat of the row of 3.

The S-Stock won'nt be as wide as the A-Stock, right? It's going to have 2-2 seating, I assume...

Thanks alot for this thread Tubeman!
Yes the A Stocks are the widest, a throwback to the fact the Metropolitan Railway was first built in the Great Western Railway 7-foot Broad Gauge so the tunnels are roomier.

S Stock will have to fit into all the Sub Surface tunnels, so will be standard width.
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Old December 12th, 2005, 12:26 AM   #196
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Originally Posted by Tubeman
To my knowledge I'm the only forumer in the Railway Industry
No you're not!
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Old December 12th, 2005, 12:50 AM   #197
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No you're not!
Enlighten me
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Old December 12th, 2005, 12:58 AM   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarJoLe
Oh the DLR extension into the West End was rumoured to be Bank>Ludgate Circus>Aldwych>Covent Garden which would have been interesting. Also Tower Gateway is still on the cards to be moved underground into the first stretch of the Bank tunnel and the existing station mothballed, allowing a better connection between it, Tower Hill and Fenchurch Street.

That is interesting. They could reuse a substantial part of the old Jubilee line. I've read that the tunnel on the 1970's tunnels were larger than the standard tube lines (to cut down on air resistence), though of course not as large as the tunnels in the 1999 extension. The old Jubilee line was meant to be extended along Fleet street and to London bridge in 1970's, but the money ran out. The running tunnels run as far as Aldwych.
So if the did want to extend the DLR to the West End and the trains could fit those tunnels then the only tunnel they would have to build is from Bank to Aldwych and they would only have to build two stations as the Charing Cross platforms could be reopened.

What with the cost of tunnelling I only thought that any westwards extension would be fairly short, so the Western part of the City could be accessed.
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Old December 12th, 2005, 01:56 AM   #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman
Yes the A Stocks are the widest, a throwback to the fact the Metropolitan Railway was first built in the Great Western Railway 7-foot Broad Gauge so the tunnels are roomier.

S Stock will have to fit into all the Sub Surface tunnels, so will be standard width.
Hum.... come to think about it.... the A-Stock being wider that the rest of the SSL stock means that the gap between the platforms and the train when a C-Stock train is using a platform is bigger than when an A-Stock is using it.
Well.... London is well known for it's "Mind the Gap"!
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Old December 12th, 2005, 02:35 AM   #200
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That is interesting. They could reuse a substantial part of the old Jubilee line. I've read that the tunnel on the 1970's tunnels were larger than the standard tube lines (to cut down on air resistence), though of course not as large as the tunnels in the 1999 extension. The old Jubilee line was meant to be extended along Fleet street and to London bridge in 1970's, but the money ran out. The running tunnels run as far as Aldwych.
So if the did want to extend the DLR to the West End and the trains could fit those tunnels then the only tunnel they would have to build is from Bank to Aldwych and they would only have to build two stations as the Charing Cross platforms could be reopened.

What with the cost of tunnelling I only thought that any westwards extension would be fairly short, so the Western part of the City could be accessed.

After some rooting through google I have found out some more info. The 1977 Jubille line extension has a diameter of 3.81m or 12"6' now the existing DLR tunnel is 5m in diameter, but that does include an emergency walkway which the older tube line does not. So it could be possible for it to fit. From what I've dug up on other message boards the two most discussed options were a line to Charing Cross or Farringdon.
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