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Old December 12th, 2007, 04:24 PM   #2161
iampuking
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Originally Posted by Acemcbuller View Post
I was there this evening. Yes its very nice, big and clean. Very reminiscent of a continental station. Very airport like too.
I was disappointed though by the transfer from there to the tube though. It took several minutes to walk. Covered, car free, and very interesting compared to Kings Cross/St Pancras to Kings Cross Thameslink but annoyingly long.
It's going to be quicker to the Tube platforms (Northern, Piccadilly, Victoria) in 2009 when the Northern Ticket Hall opens, there will be a connection from there to the lower concourse at St Pancras (to the left when you exit the Thameslink station) and then a new set of escalators to the deep level tube platforms on the opposite end of the escalators there already. The walk to the Circle, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan lines will probably be the same legnth as it is now unfortunately...
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Old December 12th, 2007, 07:37 PM   #2162
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...

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Old December 13th, 2007, 09:25 PM   #2163
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http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2903879.ece

tubeman i don't know if you have seen this but what are your thoughts. taking over the metro services is a must. they already have a fair frequency but no rationality. you get 8trains and our up at say crystal palace and 8 down, but they all go to different places. hopefully if red ken gets control then he can make more sence of it. but i think he should then tender out the longer distances commuter services coz its a bit stupid. but i'd rather the it be in public than private ownership!!
Yeah Ken / TFL have made no secret about their desire to control all commuter rail services in London. I'd love to see one single body overseeing all rail services in London: the LU:NR distinction is pretty arbitrary anyway. I'd like to see full integration between SSR and NR (the ELL being absorbed into LOROL is just the start)... The two sides of the Circle are ready-made Crossrails and could offer a wide range of cross-London services if connections were made with NR (e.g. at Royal Oak, Olympia, West Brompton, Richmond, Ealing Broadway, Bromley By Bow etc.
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Old December 15th, 2007, 12:50 PM   #2164
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I know this is not strictly about the tube, but can you explain clearance and gauge to me? Why do these factors affect the speed on our national rail network i.e. they are too small compared to continental lines.

And now a tube question - what happens to the network on Christmas day? Do people work on it?

many many thanks
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Old December 15th, 2007, 03:11 PM   #2165
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I know this is not strictly about the tube, but can you explain clearance and gauge to me? Why do these factors affect the speed on our national rail network i.e. they are too small compared to continental lines.

And now a tube question - what happens to the network on Christmas day? Do people work on it?

many many thanks
It might be a little confusing as there are two gauges, there's the gauge of the rails (i.e. their distance apart) and also the loading gauge, which is essentially the height / width of the train (i.e. clearance).

UK and most continental railways have standard 4 foot 8.5 inches gauge between the rails, but the difference is the continental loading gauge is bigger so in short many British bridges and tunnels are too small for larger continental trains (e.g. duplex TGV). This shouldn't have any bearing on speed though, although it is true to say that continetal high speed trains can't run on British railways due to the loading gauge, so it is sort of the case.

Re: Tube on Christmas Day, services finish about an hour earlier on Christmas Eve and then start up significantly later on Boxing day (about 08:00), so there's about 32 hours with no train movements. Practically all operational duties normally staffed round the clock (e.g. Station Supervisors, Service Controllers, Duty managers) stop for this period, but the Network Operations Centre (NOC) stays open with a skeleton staff. There are also a few staff members who object to taking Christmas Day as a day's Annual leave for religious reasons, they are allowed to busy themselves with office work at Head Office (55 Broadway) etc.

Even though we employ security, it's also normally a graffiti free-for-all too
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Old December 15th, 2007, 04:12 PM   #2166
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I'd love to see some internal maps of tube stations, especially the complex ones like KXSP, Bank/Monument and Oxford Circus. Are they available online anywhere? (Not for any nefarious purpose, you understand...!)
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Old December 15th, 2007, 04:43 PM   #2167
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I'd love to see some internal maps of tube stations, especially the complex ones like KXSP, Bank/Monument and Oxford Circus. Are they available online anywhere? (Not for any nefarious purpose, you understand...!)
I doubt it, LU are pretty twitchy about that sort of thing... Certainly not precise digrams showing all rooms.

This as good as you'll find online...

Bank-Monument:



Piccadilly Circus:



Camden Town Junctions:



All very stylised / diagrammatic
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Old December 15th, 2007, 10:25 PM   #2168
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Oxford Circus too:



More here.
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Old December 16th, 2007, 04:03 AM   #2169
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TfL may be sniffy about station diagrammes, but station staff have an interesting habit of sticking them up on the wall in public areas - certainly at Holborn and Chancery Lane - there near the top of the escalators at both.
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Old December 16th, 2007, 02:12 PM   #2170
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TfL may be sniffy about station diagrammes, but station staff have an interesting habit of sticking them up on the wall in public areas - certainly at Holborn and Chancery Lane - there near the top of the escalators at both.
Those are essential: they are adjacent to the fire panel and are for the LFB to locate where on the station the panel is being activated from. You'll find them at every 'Section 12' station. Otherwise a station could evacuate and the LFB would be scratching their heads on arrival which room / area they're supposed to be going to as all the panel print-out will say is 'Fire detected in room X', without the map this information would be useless.
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Old December 17th, 2007, 08:57 PM   #2171
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There are also a few staff members who object to taking Christmas Day as a day's Annual leave for religious reasons, they are allowed to busy themselves with office work at Head Office (55 Broadway) etc.
That seems a bit nutty given that Christmas is very much a secular holiday these days (unless you go to church or sing Christian carols). Do LUL treat Christmas differently to other Bank Holidays?
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Old December 17th, 2007, 10:48 PM   #2172
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That seems a bit nutty given that Christmas is very much a secular holiday these days (unless you go to church or sing Christian carols). Do LUL treat Christmas differently to other Bank Holidays?

Well yes, it's the only day with no trains!

Any other Christian holiday can be worked without a problem, it's just that some staff object to being 'forced' to use an Annual leave day on Christmas Day (it's taken off the entitlement) and so insist on 'working'.
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Old December 18th, 2007, 01:47 PM   #2173
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In your driving days, did you check out the talent on the platform as you came cruising in on your big machine?
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Old December 18th, 2007, 02:18 PM   #2174
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In your driving days, did you check out the talent on the platform as you came cruising in on your big machine?
Yes, all the time. Hence I always drove with my cab light on. It's one of the few pleasures you have as a Tube driver
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Old December 18th, 2007, 03:30 PM   #2175
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Yes, all the time. Hence I always drove with my cab light on. It's one of the few pleasures you have as a Tube driver
joker

tubeman, got a few more qs

-do tiket inspectors regularly patrol the tube, because i've just realised how easy it is to travel from seven kings to whitton (got family in both those areas), using the tube and for free. coz theres never usually anyone manning those stations, and the connections with the tube are just cross platform, Stratoford, mile end, richmond? makes it too easy in some places don'tcha think?

-also with stratford station to get to the jubilee, you have to go through twosets of ticket barriers, is your ticket double counted or is the technology advanced enough to realise that you've already been through once, coz surely that has a massive effect on the entrance/exit figures. and also how do they work out the annual ridership on the circle??

-whats your opinion on peds. personally as functional as they are, i think theyruin the feel of a train station astetically and i love the rush of hot air you get as a tube train enters the platform its one of the quirks of the system

-do you reckon they'll ever be aday that the tube can run 24/7?

cheers tubeman
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Old December 18th, 2007, 06:54 PM   #2176
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Hi tubeman,

Probably a stupid question and been answered before,so just point me in the right directions and forgive me.

At North Greenwich there is a third platform - 2 eastbound and one westbound.
Am i right in thinking this 2nd platform was for a proposed extension into southeast London towards Thamesmead and Charlton??
BUT since Crossrail IS going ahead as planned to this area whats going to happen with this?? Have there been any ideas floated for this 'spare routing'?
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Old December 19th, 2007, 12:06 AM   #2177
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That seems a bit nutty given that Christmas is very much a secular holiday these days (unless you go to church or sing Christian carols). Do LUL treat Christmas differently to other Bank Holidays?
What other type of carols are there?
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Old December 19th, 2007, 12:31 AM   #2178
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What other type of carols are there?
Plenty, although today we mostly associate carols with Christmas (and to a lesser extend Easter) and as christian religious songs. As far as history goes though, carols were festival songs, both christian or otherwise.
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Old December 19th, 2007, 04:26 PM   #2179
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joker

tubeman, got a few more qs

-do tiket inspectors regularly patrol the tube, because i've just realised how easy it is to travel from seven kings to whitton (got family in both those areas), using the tube and for free. coz theres never usually anyone manning those stations, and the connections with the tube are just cross platform, Stratoford, mile end, richmond? makes it too easy in some places don'tcha think?
Yes that is a weakness in the system... It will only be addressed once all suburban stations have Oyster barriers which are staffed and therefore energised (if a station is unstaffed as is often the case with quieter NR stations then any barriers would just be left open anyway). I suppose it's only useful if you enter and exit at quiet NR stations with no staff / barriers, and yes there are Revenue Protection staff (RCIs) patrolling the Tube so you run the risk of a £20 Penalty fare.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
-also with stratford station to get to the jubilee, you have to go through twosets of ticket barriers, is your ticket double counted or is the technology advanced enough to realise that you've already been through once, coz surely that has a massive effect on the entrance/exit figures.
The Oyster technology accounts for this, otherwise there'd be a fair few complaints!

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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
and also how do they work out the annual ridership on the circle??
I presume all of the annual ridership figures are estimates based on actual monitoring of train loading. It is impossible to know this data for sure from Oyster because for numerous journies there is more than one possible route involving different lines so just knowing where someone entered and exited the network doesn't tell you which lines they used... Plucking an example out of thin air, if someone enters at Ealing Broadway and exits at King's Cross St Pancras, did they:

- Central to Holborn then Picc
- Central to Oxford Circus then Vic
- Central to Notting Hill Gate then Circle
- District to Acton Town then Picc
- District to Victoria then Vic
- NR to Paddington then Circle / H&C

???

...And so on

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
-whats your opinion on peds. personally as functional as they are, i think theyruin the feel of a train station astetically and i love the rush of hot air you get as a tube train enters the platform its one of the quirks of the system
I agree that PEDs ruin the aesthetics of the JLE stations insofar that you feel removed from the train coming in. They're obviously useful in that they prevent access to the track, but unless every station above and below ground has them, anyone wanting to commit suicide just needs to go to a PED-free station instead!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
-do you reckon they'll ever be aday that the tube can run 24/7?

cheers tubeman
Probably never, not 7 days a week anyway. We might see continuous running from Friday morning to Sunday night at some point, but Saturday onto Sunday is currently the most useful spell of engineering hours in the week as its nearly 5 hours as opposed to the usual 3, so there would be a lot of resistance from engineering. We'd also lose untold trains from service due to vomit, urine and vandalism and suffer a lot of antisocial behaviour / crime so I personally don't believe the pros outweigh the cons.
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Old December 19th, 2007, 04:33 PM   #2180
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Hi tubeman,

Probably a stupid question and been answered before,so just point me in the right directions and forgive me.

At North Greenwich there is a third platform - 2 eastbound and one westbound.
Am i right in thinking this 2nd platform was for a proposed extension into southeast London towards Thamesmead and Charlton??
BUT since Crossrail IS going ahead as planned to this area whats going to happen with this?? Have there been any ideas floated for this 'spare routing'?

North Greenwich was laid out to allow the flying junction for a branch into the Royal Docks to be easily added as required, but now the DLR extensions to Beckton and Woolwich have effectively removed the need, and it will be even less attractive as an option if Crossrail 1 builds the link from the Isle of Dogs through the Royal Docks to Abbey Wood.

I guess also the Stratford - Canary Wharf corridor has become so vital for funelling passengers from Essex and NE London toward Canary Wharf avoiding Central London that any reduction in service by splitting the line at North Greenwich would not acceptable.
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