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Old January 17th, 2008, 02:06 AM   #2301
ChrisH
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On lines with ATO would it be possible to paint yellow boxes where the doors will open, and instruct passengers to wait either side? I know it sounds pretty idealistic, but it works in Singapore and Tokyo (oh... right).
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Old January 17th, 2008, 10:23 AM   #2302
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On lines with ATO would it be possible to paint yellow boxes where the doors will open, and instruct passengers to wait either side? I know it sounds pretty idealistic, but it works in Singapore and Tokyo (oh... right).
Knowing the Great British public it wouldn't work. Born-and-bred commuters are pretty good with Tube etiquette, but a lot of tourists and recent European immigrants seem to have trouble understanding the concept of letting people off first and just barge on. The yellow boxes would probably just give these types a head start and encourage them to stand in the way.

Certainly a good idea in principle, but all it takes is one. When a packed train comes into a station most people politely stand back, but as soon as one of them barges on prematurely the rest follow for fear of losing their chance of getting on through their politeness. It's like watching lemmings.
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Old January 17th, 2008, 10:24 AM   #2303
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Hi tubeman
I was travelling through London Bridge earlier today, whats this I hear about dwell times being changed/experimented with.....there was a poster but being rush hour didn't get chance to stop and read it....do you know anything about it?
No... I'll have a nose around our intranet and see if I can spot anything.
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Old January 17th, 2008, 09:42 PM   #2304
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No... I'll have a nose around our intranet and see if I can spot anything.
The poster he refers to I believe has been there for ages. There's another one at Bermondsey.

It says "Train Operators: Peak dwell time target: 30 seconds" at Bermondsey it says "Peak dwell time target: 20 seconds"
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Old January 18th, 2008, 09:19 PM   #2305
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That'll be to do with the 24tph promise: LU are contractually bound to CWG to provide at least that frequency because of the financial contribution CWG made to the JLE.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 05:55 AM   #2306
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It was upstairs near to the ticket barriers not down on the platforms, and the poster looked quite lengthy....

Am going through Bermondsey on Sunday and London Bridge again on Monday will see whether I can see any more then, unless i see something here before hand.

Will report back.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 12:30 PM   #2307
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That'll be to do with the 24tph promise: LU are contractually bound to CWG to provide at least that frequency because of the financial contribution CWG made to the JLE.
Jeez... you mean LU do this grudgingly?? 24tph is at least what you should expect on a subway line in Zone 2.
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Old January 19th, 2008, 05:12 PM   #2308
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It has been explained before, the Jubilee line has crap signalling because it was originally intended to have ATO from when the extension opened. When the contractors couldn't install it in time for the millenium, they rushed and installed sparsely spaced bog standard signalling instead.

The Jubilee line is to receive new signalling for 2009, and it's being installed now, you may notice a wire appearing between the running rails like on the DLR... According to alwaystouchout it'll run at 33tph after the upgrade.

See the Tubelines propaganda video here

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Old January 20th, 2008, 11:13 AM   #2309
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Thanks for explaining!
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Old January 20th, 2008, 11:35 AM   #2310
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Quote:
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On lines with ATO would it be possible to paint yellow boxes where the doors will open, and instruct passengers to wait either side? I know it sounds pretty idealistic, but it works in Singapore and Tokyo (oh... right).
It used to work well years ago here (Singapore). But then in the mid-1990s they removed them and put them back in a new format in the 2000s. But they aren't effective anymore although they were expanded system wide on the older lines compared to at underground stations only during the 1990s.

Kuala Lumpur's seems to be effective though, with passengers actually forming queues.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 08:10 PM   #2311
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There is no space for queues at most LU stations...

Many commuters are savvy enough to know where the doors stop on the Central/Victoria lines, plus, at stations with gaps (pretty much all of them these days ) it helps to stand where the "MIND THE GAP" is written on the floor, as doors often stop somewhere around there.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 08:42 PM   #2312
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Quote:
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There is no space for queues at most LU stations...

Many commuters are savvy enough to know where the doors stop on the Central/Victoria lines, plus, at stations with gaps (pretty much all of them these days ) it helps to stand where the "MIND THE GAP" is written on the floor, as doors often stop somewhere around there.
Interestingly on the Jubilee platform floors of Green Park you'll find faint arrows where you should stand to board and disembark.
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Old January 20th, 2008, 08:57 PM   #2313
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Strange, do you work for LU or do you just remember?
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Old January 21st, 2008, 10:28 PM   #2314
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I just remember... and the trains dont line up with them
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 10:55 AM   #2315
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Quote:
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I just remember... and the trains dont line up with them
They must have been painted on for the 1983 Stock then... I guess when it was suddenly realised what a terrible mistake installing single-leaf doors on Tube trains was, they experimented with methods of ensuring dwell times at the busiest stations (namely Green Park) were managed as best as possible.

Note the woeful provision of doors (in the name of 'economy')

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Old January 22nd, 2008, 01:01 PM   #2316
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I liked those trains - I used to catch them down to Charing Cross every morning...those were the days!

I think there were rumours of them going to the Piccadilly at one point - were they made into scrap in the end?
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Old January 22nd, 2008, 03:42 PM   #2317
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I liked those trains - I used to catch them down to Charing Cross every morning...those were the days!

I think there were rumours of them going to the Piccadilly at one point - were they made into scrap in the end?
Some sat in Upminster depot for years rusting, and ultimately I think they were all scrapped bar a few cars which now sit atop containers on the disused section of Broad Street viaduct immediately north of Great Eastern Street.

image hosted on flickr




They were earmarked for the Picc at one point, but they would have needed to have had wider doorways cut in to prevent the '83s from slaughtering the service, and in the end it was decided that this was too expensive.
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 01:04 PM   #2318
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They had weird cab ends, it looked like someone had just sliced a tube train in half and decided it was the front.
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 08:23 PM   #2319
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Very similar to the D Stock:



(They were essentially Surface and Tube versions of the same train)
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Old January 23rd, 2008, 10:24 PM   #2320
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Quote:
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Some sat in Upminster depot for years rusting, and ultimately I think they were all scrapped bar a few cars which now sit atop containers on the disused section of Broad Street viaduct immediately north of Great Eastern Street.

image hosted on flickr




They were earmarked for the Picc at one point, but they would have needed to have had wider doorways cut in to prevent the '83s from slaughtering the service, and in the end it was decided that this was too expensive.
I thought I read somewhere that the Broad St Viaduct - rebuilt - part of the original route of the ELL northern extension? Until the changes it to go through the goods yard further north
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