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Old January 24th, 2008, 12:33 AM   #2321
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I thought I read somewhere that the Broad St Viaduct - rebuilt - part of the original route of the ELL northern extension? Until the changes it to go through the goods yard further north
Yes the entire Broad Street viaduct will be used for the ELLE except for this short stub north of Great Eastern Street.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 10:42 AM   #2322
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2nd page?! Boo! I demand to answer more questions!
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Old January 27th, 2008, 11:38 AM   #2323
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Sorry mate, I'd like to ask you a question but all I can think of asking is about tube expansion projects and what exactly is on the cards at the moment, but I'm sure that has been asked further back (and I'm lazy and can't be bothered to look!).

I guess I could ask about your views concerning ATO implementation on the Northern, Piccadilly and Jubilee lines - good idea or not? I know that a lot of people moan about ATO being inaccurate and frequently overshooting platforms. Have these issues been addressed or is the system still a bit temperamental?
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Old January 27th, 2008, 01:24 PM   #2324
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Sorry mate, I'd like to ask you a question but all I can think of asking is about tube expansion projects and what exactly is on the cards at the moment, but I'm sure that has been asked further back (and I'm lazy and can't be bothered to look!).

I guess I could ask about your views concerning ATO implementation on the Northern, Piccadilly and Jubilee lines - good idea or not? I know that a lot of people moan about ATO being inaccurate and frequently overshooting platforms. Have these issues been addressed or is the system still a bit temperamental?
ATO on the Victoria line isn't perfect, but it is 40+ year old technology: drivers often have to apply the emergency brake to prevent the train overshooting the platform monitors. The Central Line to my knowledge is fine, certainly in tunnel sections, but I don't know how well the ATO performs above ground in icy / slippery conditions (I'm certainly not aware of any issues I hasten to add).

ATO allows higher frequencies and more reliable service through removing the human factor of drivers plodding along at their own pace, it's pretty much all positive.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 04:46 PM   #2325
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ATO on the Victoria line isn't perfect, but it is 40+ year old technology: drivers often have to apply the emergency brake to prevent the train overshooting the platform monitors. The Central Line to my knowledge is fine, certainly in tunnel sections, but I don't know how well the ATO performs above ground in icy / slippery conditions (I'm certainly not aware of any issues I hasten to add).

ATO allows higher frequencies and more reliable service through removing the human factor of drivers plodding along at their own pace, it's pretty much all positive.
As a follow-up... how bored do 'drivers' on ATO lines get? I've heard they often read newspapers while the train is driving itself, but that passengers got a bit scared when they saw trains pulling into their stations while the driver was reading the Evening Standard.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 05:57 PM   #2326
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I always see Central line "drivers" reading the newspapers... Shouldn't they be paying attention to the emergency break in case someone fell on the tracks?
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Old January 27th, 2008, 07:00 PM   #2327
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Doing anything other than watching the 'road' is against the ATO procedures. Obviously you can't really blame the 'drivers' from reading between tunnel section stations (I knew Guards who specifically chose the Victoria Line when they got their 'motors' qualification so they could study degrees etc), but being seen reading entering platforms is stupid.

If there is a 'one under' and the driver is caught on camera reading then they can kiss their jobs goodbye, and might even end up on a Manslaughter charge.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 07:34 PM   #2328
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Can breaking really stop a one under though? Surely it goes too quick...
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Old January 27th, 2008, 10:10 PM   #2329
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Can breaking really stop a one under though? Surely it goes too quick...
More accidental falls onto the track... Obviously if you're jumping you'll do it at the last second and such that the driver can't stop (although I've seen lame half-arsed attempts in my time at the 'slow' end of platforms where people have carefully climbed down and waited for a train which stopped well short of them). Falls are pretty common, and provided the driver gets enough sight of them they can stop in time... hence why reading a newspaper on an ATO train could be potentially lethal.
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Old January 27th, 2008, 11:13 PM   #2330
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What goes on behind the Strand station?

If you could gain access to the platforms there - would you be able to hear the distant rumble of pic trains?
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Old January 28th, 2008, 12:30 AM   #2331
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What goes on behind the Strand station?

If you could gain access to the platforms there - would you be able to hear the distant rumble of pic trains?
Filming and that's it I think... There used to be functions in there, but I guess it was deemed too much of a security risk post-7/7.

There's an ex Northern Line 1972 MkI stock down there which has featured in several films, including 'Creep'.

I guess you might be able to hear Picc trains at a push, but Holborn is a pretty long way away.
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Old January 28th, 2008, 12:31 AM   #2332
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More accidental falls onto the track... Obviously if you're jumping you'll do it at the last second and such that the driver can't stop (although I've seen lame half-arsed attempts in my time at the 'slow' end of platforms where people have carefully climbed down and waited for a train which stopped well short of them). Falls are pretty common, and provided the driver gets enough sight of them they can stop in time... hence why reading a newspaper on an ATO train could be potentially lethal.
Did you get any falls in your time as a driver?

And do you know if stations such as South Kensington and Angel will have their old entrances reopened for step free access? Both the buildings are there and remain unused.
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Old January 28th, 2008, 01:28 AM   #2333
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Did you get any falls in your time as a driver?

And do you know if stations such as South Kensington and Angel will have their old entrances reopened for step free access? Both the buildings are there and remain unused.

No, I led a charmed life: no 'one unders'... I didn't even have to deal with any as a Duty Manager (I always seemed to just miss them).

I think with a lot of the stations with disused lift shafts the shafts don't descend all the way to platform level, so it's not that straightforward making these stations step-free. Certainly at the 'old' Angel there was a flight of stairs down to the platforms like Clapham Common / North from the lower lift concourse. Even if this wasn't an issue it would be expensive insofar UTS gates would have to be installed at the original City Road entrance, and therefore extra staff would be needed to man the barriers.
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Old January 28th, 2008, 02:00 AM   #2334
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Hi tubeman
I was travelling through London Bridge earlier today, whats this I hear about dwell times being changed/experimented with.....there was a poster but being rush hour didn't get chance to stop and read it....do you know anything about it?
It took a while but I found out what this sign was.

They were talking about boarding times and how they will be experimenting over the next 6 months at 10 Jubilee Line stations, basically its all about the lines on platforms showing people where to stand, ironically a couple of the stations included are Canada Water and Canary Wharf, both of which have those doors!!
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Old January 28th, 2008, 06:22 PM   #2335
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Why did so many old stations have lifts and then a flight of stairs? Why do the lifts not go all the way down?

Surely when people fall on the track they are electricuted before being run over? Can the driver stop the juice from the cab?
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Old January 28th, 2008, 07:09 PM   #2336
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And do you know if stations such as South Kensington and Angel will have their old entrances reopened for step free access? Both the buildings are there and remain unused.
There was a plan to make South Kensington easy access, but like many plans in this area they get NIMBY'd almost immediately by the people who live close to the station.

I remember a few years ago they were trying to get disabled access in the form of one of those open chair lifts, but it was turned down as it would have meant the loss of two shop units.

As for the old Picc line entrance I believe the building is used as station offices as I often see people coming out of them onto the station and also the shops in the arcade extend into the back of the offices.

One plan a couple of years that was vetoed was the redevelopment of the whole site of the station into a 12 floor block with luxury apartments, a renovated shopping arcade and a refurbished station including disabled access via a lifts to the Station concourse, and then another one to the District and Picc Lines, but i think it would have meant tunnelling new platform access to the Picc Line.

That plan got turned down on the basis of its height and the number of apartments but as far as I'm aware no-one complained about about the work to the station or arcade.
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Old January 28th, 2008, 07:15 PM   #2337
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Hey tubeman,

In regards to the 'new' Angel Station.
I know the platforms are at depth and would require lengthy escalators, but why build the station building so far away from the platforms. Even when you get down the escalators you still have a good walk to get to the plaforms.
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Old January 28th, 2008, 10:01 PM   #2338
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It took a while but I found out what this sign was.

They were talking about boarding times and how they will be experimenting over the next 6 months at 10 Jubilee Line stations, basically its all about the lines on platforms showing people where to stand, ironically a couple of the stations included are Canada Water and Canary Wharf, both of which have those doors!!
As we were talking about before - Green Park has some faint lines where there used to indicators about where to stand on the platform. I'll try go take a pic before they experiment with the new ones (they gave examples in the Metro today - hideous some of them! Looked like yellow boxes you find on the road).
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Old January 28th, 2008, 10:08 PM   #2339
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Why did so many old stations have lifts and then a flight of stairs? Why do the lifts not go all the way down?
Giving it a little thought I've come up with the following explanation:

The original 'Tube' lines were all built directly below roads, with the bores even being stacked above one another if the road above was too narrow (thus avoiding the then payments due to landowners above). Now the station entrances, by definition, would always be on the side of the road as opposed to in the middle of it so lift shafts would always have been sunk to one side of the Tube bores rather than between them. This means that steps to access the platforms are inevitable. The preferred option seems to have generally to build a lower lift concourse level with a cross-passageway and steps down to platforms.

The few instances where this was successfully avoided are locations like Earl's Court and Caledonian Road, where the Piccadilly Line was built below an existing railway line and thus stations and therefore lift shafts could be sited between the Tube tunnels where they crossed under a main road (e.g. Earl's Court Road or Caledonian Road respectively).

I've made this all up, but to me it seems to be the 'answer' to your query

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Surely when people fall on the track they are electricuted before being run over? Can the driver stop the juice from the cab?
No, the voltages are low so the current can't 'jump' or penetrate even light clothing. Through platforms the +420v 'Positive' rail is the rail furthest from the platform edge so unlikely to be touched... It's the -210v 'Negative' rail which would likely be touched, and this has a lower voltage than a household power supply. Bear in mind you wouldn't think twice about handling a live flex on a table-lamp or TV, and this is 240v being kept from your skin by a couple of millimetres of plastic if that. Therefore, falling onto either of the LU power rails with dry clothing is safe... But wet clothes or bare skin is a different story, you stick and cook slowly (whereas if you come too close to a NR 25,000V Overhead line you'd be flambeed very quickly!).
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Old January 28th, 2008, 10:10 PM   #2340
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Hey tubeman,

In regards to the 'new' Angel Station.
I know the platforms are at depth and would require lengthy escalators, but why build the station building so far away from the platforms. Even when you get down the escalators you still have a good walk to get to the plaforms.
I guess they wanted the station entrance to be as convenient as possible, i.e. right next to the pedestrian crossing across the Upper St / Liverpool Rd junction and by the bus stops. As that entire block was redeveloped at the same time I suppose they could have made the entrance wherever they wanted, but chose the best location (which it is, far better than the old one on City Road).
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