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Old February 25th, 2008, 09:44 PM   #2401
Songoten2554
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i seen some large Railway yards but wow those are massive.

so the ones that exist now are on the London Underground Jubliee line and the other line as well?

i thought Main Line Railway Yards are way more bigger then Metro Yards?

isn't the Channel Tunnel Railway Yard Large and in Epic Scale?
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Old February 25th, 2008, 11:31 PM   #2402
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Hi Tubeman,

Question regarding 1992 stock: Having read a bit of this thread and elsewhere, the impression is that the '92 stock seems to be deteriorating, or at least not predicted to have the longetivity of other tube stock. What are the reasons for this, technical or otherwise?
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Old February 25th, 2008, 11:44 PM   #2403
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Bloody hell, it's massive!
Kingmoor yard only remained open for 9 years as a marshalling yard, part of it remains open today as a fan of dead-end engineering sidings but the rest of the vast series of yards can be made out on Google earth (to the north-west of the city of Carlisle to the west of the WCML).

Margam's completely gone, but can be traced on Google earth (to the south of Port Talbot).
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Old February 26th, 2008, 12:04 AM   #2404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
i seen some large Railway yards but wow those are massive.

so the ones that exist now are on the London Underground Jubliee line and the other line as well?

i thought Main Line Railway Yards are way more bigger then Metro Yards?

isn't the Channel Tunnel Railway Yard Large and in Epic Scale?
Freight traffic has dwindled so much in the UK that the huge marshalling yards I posted are a distant memory.

Freight used to be loaded onto separate wagons at goods stations and factories across the country before being concentrated at facilities like these and the wagons 'marshalled' into trains depending on their ultimate destination, so for example coal from South Wales destined for the East End of London might run from the colliery to Margam Yard, be marshalled into a London-bound train, run to Temple Mills Yard, then be marshalled into a smaller train to run to a local coal depot where merchants sold the coal to local customers.

Freight was revolutionised after the 1960's when containerisation came into force, which essentially removed the need for any marshalling as containers can be simply plucked off the back of trains without the wagons being shunted around. Local goods stations (which were once found at most UK stations) were generally all closed between about 1965 and 1970 with a handful surviving after that, so whereas freight trains once consisted of dozens of mixed short wagons and vans, after the 1970's they generally were trains of one raw material (e.g. coal, stone, oil) or trains of containers.

This removed the need for these vast marshalling yards often within a decade of their being built.

The Channel Tunnel yard is modest in comparison to those I posted before, as containers are simply carried straight through the tunnel between Europe and the UK without any need for transfer or sorting.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 12:09 AM   #2405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterstar View Post
Hi Tubeman,

Question regarding 1992 stock: Having read a bit of this thread and elsewhere, the impression is that the '92 stock seems to be deteriorating, or at least not predicted to have the longetivity of other tube stock. What are the reasons for this, technical or otherwise?
Sadly I guess it was not built robust enough to cope with the punishment of running ATO... The 92 Stock accelerate and brake very quickly and seems to be struggling somewhat with the stresses and strains of this.

It was the swansong of BREL (British Rail Engineering Ltd) up in Derby before it was taken over by Bombardier.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 08:50 AM   #2406
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^ interesting, thanks Tubeman. Do you know why such large yards still exist in the US? If containers made them unnessesary, what are their purposes there?
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Old February 26th, 2008, 04:15 PM   #2407
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Quote:
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^ interesting, thanks Tubeman. Do you know why such large yards still exist in the US? If containers made them unnessesary, what are their purposes there?
Freight is still the primary emphasis of the North American railroads. Carload traffic is not yet on the decline in North America to the extent it disappeared in the UK and Europe. Freight travels much long distances in North America than Europe and the distribution patterns still support concentration and deconcentration of carload traffic in large yards.
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Old February 26th, 2008, 04:34 PM   #2408
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Quote:
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Freight is still the primary emphasis of the North American railroads. Carload traffic is not yet on the decline in North America to the extent it disappeared in the UK and Europe. Freight travels much long distances in North America than Europe and the distribution patterns still support concentration and deconcentration of carload traffic in large yards.
Yes I think it's the distances that are key... It would be pointless for a UK company like Tesco to transport goods by rail if they're only going to be moved <100 miles from distribution depots before being loaded onto lorries to go to individual stores anyway... may as well make the entire journey by road as at least it's door to door.

In the US where it's a matter of thousands of miles it's more effective.
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Old February 28th, 2008, 03:42 AM   #2409
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I went through Gloucester Road station on the Piccadilly line, and noticed that over there had been grey boards slapped over the tiling. I assume that these grey boards are going to be where the new advertising will be projected onto. My question is: Why go through all of the trouble of restoring the Yerkes tiles, methodically recreating the pattern, only to slap advertising over it? Who is responsible for it (and could I have their address ) Surely something that is actually infitting with the architecture would be better...
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Old February 28th, 2008, 07:48 PM   #2410
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No it can't be the projection advertising, they project from behind waiting passengers onto the trackside wall from a projector unit suspended from the ceiling.

I had an interesting presentation last week from the company behind the cross-platform projection advertising as they want to roll it out at a couple of Bakerloo locations. I saw the list of stations due to get it next, and Gloucester Rd wasn't one of them. They're going to go for the busiest platforms only and I don't think Gloucester Road is especially busy comapred to many other stations.
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Old February 29th, 2008, 12:34 AM   #2411
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But why did they feel the need to put them over the tiling, why bother at all with restoring it...

And why are only Bakerloo line stations receiving the new style of advertisement?

thanks for your replies.

EDIT: sounded unintentionally rude!

Last edited by iampuking; February 29th, 2008 at 12:46 AM.
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Old March 1st, 2008, 12:52 AM   #2412
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They have projection advertising in the Victoria Line station at Euston. In these days of plasma screens it seems rather old fashioned and, although the heat generated by a projector is not that great, I thought the tunnels could do without it.
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Old March 1st, 2008, 10:52 AM   #2413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
But why did they feel the need to put them over the tiling, why bother at all with restoring it...

And why are only Bakerloo line stations receiving the new style of advertisement?

thanks for your replies.

EDIT: sounded unintentionally rude!
Errr as I said the cross-platform projection advertising can't be the reason for anything being fixed in front of any tiling, the projections will be onto the blank wallspace currently covered in wet posters.

Maybe it's one of the new plasmas? In which case yes I guess it is a poor show to have it fixed over restored tiling, I suppose they get away with it as it's 'temporary'.

Only two Bakerloo platforms are getting Cross platform projections if I remember correctly (Oxo and Picc), the others of the first wave of installations are spread across central London stations. As Martin S rightly says, the pilot is at Euston on the Vic line.
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 07:21 AM   #2414
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i wonder something tubeman?

why is it the government doesn't want to expand Electrification to Bristol Temple meads? i mean not with crossrail but an intercity route like the WCML and the ECML.

and also why doesn't the midland Mainline get Electrified to Sheffiled and to Leeds it would make more sense since i see Electrified overhead wires at St Pancras on the Midland Mainline side of the station?

also why they won't electrify also the Chiltern Main Line as well with it to Birmingham Snow Hill station?

Last edited by Songoten2554; March 2nd, 2008 at 07:42 AM.
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Old March 2nd, 2008, 10:42 AM   #2415
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One word: money

A lot of money has just been invested in new diesel trains for these routes too.

I guess the Midland Mainline would be the most logical as it's electrified as far north as Bedford anyway, and the north end of the route meets wires again ex-ECML.

The GWR mainline will have its electrification pushed westwards to wherever the western end of Crossrail ends up (ideally Reading I guess), and I'd like to see it continue up the Birmingham Line via Oxford as again at the northern end the line re-joines electrified routes at Birmingham. If it's extended out to Bedwyn then all but the long-distance servcies to Wales and the West Country could be electrified.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 04:39 AM   #2416
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Electrification is expensive but it was done before in the past i wonder why is it so expensive now but in the past it was cheaper i don't get it?
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 10:28 PM   #2417
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The wave of electrification was mostly a part of the huge modernisation of British Rail in the 1960's. Thousands of miles of track and thousands of stations were sacrificed while the main lines were upgraded: the savings made from closing loss-making branch lines funded the electrification of the WCML, LTSR, GER etc.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 06:02 AM   #2418
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will there be another major wave of upgrades like that soon?
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Old March 4th, 2008, 09:07 PM   #2419
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Quote:
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will there be another major wave of upgrades like that soon?
The last was the WCML (which was already electrified, it just had its track upgraded for pendolinos and some junction remodelled), this cost an obsecene amount of money (several billion £), and previous to that was the ECML electrification of the 1990's. I guess that as a large chunk of any funding will be sunk into Crossrail 1 we won't see any significant upgrade of an intercity route any time soon.

I guess the GWR main line would be next and the Midland main line last, but I suppose a significant proportion of the UK's railways will never be electrified.
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Old March 5th, 2008, 02:25 PM   #2420
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Quote:
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I guess the GWR main line would be next and the Midland main line last, but I suppose a significant proportion of the UK's railways will never be electrified.
The GWML isn't a good candidate - it has too many branches that'd you'd have to either do them all or still run lots of diesel trains.

The economic benefits of electrification aren't great, and given modern diesel trains are almost as quiet and fast and energy efficient as electric ones, there just isn't much of a case for doing it. That said, small scale projects on busy lines that make better use of existing electrification (eg Manchester-Preston and Maidenhead-Oxford/Newbury) are still plausible under current government thinking.

The WCML upgrade is still ongoing btw. It supposedly finishes this December when Virgin will introduce a much more frequent timetable and slightly faster journey times.
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