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Old March 18th, 2008, 09:48 PM   #2441
lasdun
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There is the Morgan Tube, which was to be built into Hackney. Some of the Northern Heights lines would go quite far north east. The Fleet line would have run into Docklands or Lewisham (ended up being the jubilee) and the Bakerloo was to further south east to camberwell, as was the Victoria which was heading for Croyden.

I personaly don't feel the east is badly served, certainly not after the East London Railway extensions are finished. The Hackney-Chelsea line is the missing piece of the puzzel.
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Old March 19th, 2008, 08:47 PM   #2442
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lasdun View Post
There is the Morgan Tube, which was to be built into Hackney. Some of the Northern Heights lines would go quite far north east. The Fleet line would have run into Docklands or Lewisham (ended up being the jubilee) and the Bakerloo was to further south east to camberwell, as was the Victoria which was heading for Croyden.

I personaly don't feel the east is badly served, certainly not after the East London Railway extensions are finished. The Hackney-Chelsea line is the missing piece of the puzzel.
I know about the Morgan Tube idea, which was later developed into the Chelsea-Hackney tube/crossrail 2 idea, and also feel it would overcome some of the transport issues in the area

It's not that East London is badly served, with quite a sizeable national rail service in SE London, and Docklands has the DLR, but it still leaves quite a sizeable portion of NE London with poor access to rail services in comparison to West London, which is one of the reasons I asked the question to try and find out whether as in other issues during the 19th Century East London remains the poorer half of London.

As for ideas to add additional services (I know financing is not forthcoming at this time) I feel opening additional rail services along the former lea bridge line and converting the chingford line to DLR type services would be a step in the right direction.
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Old March 19th, 2008, 09:28 PM   #2443
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Mr Tubeman,

There is a test bore tunnel around New Cross for what was suppose to be the Fleet Line...

Do you happen to know what this tunnel is being used for now? And can you imagine a situation where they build a line that would use this tunnel?
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Old March 19th, 2008, 11:57 PM   #2444
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Mr Tubeman,

There is a test bore tunnel around New Cross for what was suppose to be the Fleet Line...

Do you happen to know what this tunnel is being used for now? And can you imagine a situation where they build a line that would use this tunnel?
To my knowledge it's not used for anything: it was to be the northbound Fleet line tunnel between Lewisham and New Cross and was the pilot for an experimental tunnelling technique. It's about 200m long and I hear ends under Lewisham Shopping centre.

Maybe it can be turned into the country's longest poundstore?

I can't see its alignment being of any use... even if the Bakerloo is extended to Lewisham its direction is wrong to be utilised for that.
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Old March 20th, 2008, 04:22 PM   #2445
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Hey tubeman,

Since Northern Rail is going to be trialling Tram Trains on a line the Penistone Line in South and West Yorkshire, do you foresee them being used in the London area to take over less frequently serviced lines?

The line in question is 37 miles long, has 17 stations and is used by 1.2 million passengers but service is only by one train an hour
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Old March 21st, 2008, 12:44 AM   #2446
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Tram trains? Like the ones on Croydon Tramlink?
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Old March 21st, 2008, 03:52 AM   #2447
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Yes, but diesel. The DfT are proposing to introduce them on relatively lightly used rail routes to reduce costs and improve frequency and ambience. As their name implies, they're also capable of on-street running, which has interesting possibilities for turning the country's urban rail networks into light rail systems cheaply.

I don't think there's anywhere much in London they could usefully run, except possibly the GWML branch line shuttles. They just don't have the capacity to replace existing services, and there are few unused lines or new lines they could run on.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 06:39 PM   #2448
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BTP calls

Hi Tubeman

How come tube station staff have to request help from British Transport Police using the public address system? Surely then they don't know if anyone is responding or not? What's wrong with a phone call to the BTP control centre or a direct radio link?

James
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 07:28 PM   #2449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Tram trains? Like the ones on Croydon Tramlink?
The example system given in the publicity details is the system in Kassel, which use three car low floor Alstom Regio Citadis trams which as far as I am aware in other cities which use them are classed as Trams not trains.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 12:49 AM   #2450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acemcbuller View Post
Hi Tubeman

How come tube station staff have to request help from British Transport Police using the public address system? Surely then they don't know if anyone is responding or not? What's wrong with a phone call to the BTP control centre or a direct radio link?

James
It's all bluster: It's a pretty standard message to get rid of touts or unruly passengers when they know full well there aren't any BTP on the station. You can see the logic: you have a drunk wanker or tout in the concourse so you make that announcement in the hope they hear it and move on.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 04:50 AM   #2451
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Ah, cunning!
Thanks Tubeman.

Can you help me understand what the point of the BTP is?
Why can the regular police not handle the role of the BTP? Do the BTP get training in rail safety or something?

James
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 02:53 PM   #2452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acemcbuller View Post
Ah, cunning!
Thanks Tubeman.

Can you help me understand what the point of the BTP is?
Why can the regular police not handle the role of the BTP? Do the BTP get training in rail safety or something?

James
The BTP were set up because policing is split into authorities (e.g. Met, Thames Valley, etc) and by definition railways travel between authorities thus demanding a 'mobile' authority with jurisdiction everywhere (but only on railways, buses etc). I guess they have some additional specific railway-related training too.

The frustration is you can have a Met police station right outside a Tube station and need a policeman quick, and have to wait 45 minutes for the nearest BTP officers to amble down. Rather unkindly the 'BTP' is said to stand for 'Be there possibly / probably' amongst Tube staff.

I'm not 100% sure how it works, because if there's a serious crime then the demarcarcation seems to disappear and Met offciers will happily rush onto the Tube to apprehend a fleeing criminal (or pump his head full of lead like at Stockwell!).

It's a bit messy really... I think that as the Tube is 95% within the Met's area of juridiction we should be covered by them, thus having much quicker response times.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 04:16 PM   #2453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
The BTP were set up because policing is split into authorities (e.g. Met, Thames Valley, etc) and by definition railways travel between authorities thus demanding a 'mobile' authority with jurisdiction everywhere (but only on railways, buses etc).
I sort of see the idea. But that's the difference between USA and UK - a police office in the UK has jurisdiction everywhere in the UK, not just in their county. So it's more responsibility for dealing with incidents in their area rather than being the only ones with power in their area.

BTP website
BTP Wikipedia

According to those sources they don't cover buses or docks any more just railways. Sounds like the Met and TFL would like the BTP done away with like you. I would have thought they could operate like the traffic divisions of regular forces. That is they have specialist jobs but get involved in all the regular stuff too.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:32 PM   #2454
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I don't know if this question was asked before:
Why is there a rule that passengers should stand on the right on escalators? Isn't that counterintuitive in a country where the cars drive on the left? I've just seen a short video of London in the 1920s where signs "Please stand on the right" were visible, so it's not a new thing.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 11:58 PM   #2455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro View Post
I don't know if this question was asked before:
Why is there a rule that passengers should stand on the right on escalators? Isn't that counterintuitive in a country where the cars drive on the left? I've just seen a short video of London in the 1920s where signs "Please stand on the right" were visible, so it's not a new thing.
I'd imagine it's because people hold the escalator side with their right hand.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 12:20 AM   #2456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro View Post
I don't know if this question was asked before:
Why is there a rule that passengers should stand on the right on escalators? Isn't that counterintuitive in a country where the cars drive on the left? I've just seen a short video of London in the 1920s where signs "Please stand on the right" were visible, so it's not a new thing.
I don't quite get your point... if people are used to driving on the left, then surely walking down the left side of escalators makes sense?
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Old March 24th, 2008, 12:37 AM   #2457
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Quote:
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I don't quite get your point... if people are used to driving on the left, then surely walking down the left side of escalators makes sense?
It could be that people stand on the right in Europe, and as London get's so many European travellers, it would serve no purpose with half the people standing on the right, and the other half standing on the left.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 01:39 AM   #2458
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Quote:
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I don't quite get your point... if people are used to driving on the left, then surely walking down the left side of escalators makes sense?
Driving on the left means passing on the right. Standing on the right on escalators means passing on the left. That's my picture of it, and it seems like a contradiction.

Last edited by micro; March 24th, 2008 at 01:45 AM.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 01:42 AM   #2459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DarJoLe View Post
I'd imagine it's because people hold the escalator side with their right hand.
That might explain it. Clinging to the handrail with the right hand might have been crucial back in the 1920s when the escalator ride was still bumpier.
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Old March 30th, 2008, 02:23 PM   #2460
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Hi tubeman,

A question regarding the ELL Southern Extensions.

There was formally a bridge going over Surrey Canal Road taking trains to New Cross and New Cross Gate over the course of two or three weekends earlier this year the bridge was removed. I have since noticed a huge iron thing further down the track beyond the new depot. Do you know whether this the replacement bridge (it looks too long from what I can see?) or whether this is the 'flyover' to connect the extension to the current Southern Tracks south of New Cross Gate?
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