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Old June 2nd, 2008, 06:08 PM   #2561
iampuking
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Surely they can put those bloody things into some kind of casing...
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Old June 5th, 2008, 12:40 AM   #2562
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Why is the formation of the circle/wimbleware/h&C stock 4 cars with 2 drivers cabs + 2 cars with 1 drivers cab... i.e. 3 drivers cabs

Or did I just ride an oddity on the network?
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Old June 6th, 2008, 03:26 AM   #2563
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Each unit of C stock is two cars long, with a cab at one end of one of the cars. Every train has 6 cars (ie 3 units), so every train has a third cab in the middle as you describe.

Every line has a similar setup, with each train made of several units coupled, with each unit having 2 or more carriages permanently coupled. Units can have cabs at one end, at both, or at neither. The only exception is the Jubilee and Northern where one unit is one train.
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Old June 6th, 2008, 11:05 AM   #2564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U Thant View Post
Each unit of C stock is two cars long, with a cab at one end of one of the cars. Every train has 6 cars (ie 3 units), so every train has a third cab in the middle as you describe.

Every line has a similar setup, with each train made of several units coupled, with each unit having 2 or more carriages permanently coupled. Units can have cabs at one end, at both, or at neither. The only exception is the Jubilee and Northern where one unit is one train.
Indeed... I'm not an expert on the newer stocks, but the older stocks are formed thus:

A & 67 Stocks = 2 x 4-car units
C Stock = 3 x 2-car units
D & 73 Stocks = 2 x 3-car units
72 Stock = 1 x 3 + 1 x 4 car units

There are three basic types of car:

Driving Motor (DM) = Has a driver's cab and traction motors
Non-driving Motor (NDM) = Has traction motors but no drivers cab*
Trailer (T) = No traction motors or cab, but Air compressors

*On some stocks (D & 73) these have rudimentary driving controls at one end inside a cabinet, in case the train needs to be split in an emergency

So the trains are formed thus:

A & 67 = (DM)-(T)-(NDM)-(DM)---(DM)-(T)-(NDM)-(DM)

C = (DM)-(T)---(DM)-(T)---(T)-(DM)

D & 73 = (DM)-(T)-(NDM)---(NDM)-(T)-(DM)*

*Or some trains = (DM)-(T)-(DM)---(DM)-(T)-(DM)

^ These double-ended units with a 'proper' cab in the middle represent about 25% of the D and 73 Stock fleets, they were built to allow 3-car trains to operate on the Aldwych shuttle and East London Line

72 = (DM)-(T)-(NDM)-(DM)---(DM)-(T)-(DM)
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Old June 6th, 2008, 11:21 AM   #2565
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Tubeman

I'm a social historian looking for pictures of London Underground stations in the 1950's and 1960's. Its really the platforms i'm looking for-fashions, adverts for dinkapintamilkaday-that sort of thing.

Is there a website you can recommend please?

Thanks.
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Old June 6th, 2008, 01:59 PM   #2566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by funkydory View Post
Tubeman

I'm a social historian looking for pictures of London Underground stations in the 1950's and 1960's. Its really the platforms i'm looking for-fashions, adverts for dinkapintamilkaday-that sort of thing.

Is there a website you can recommend please?

Thanks.
Hmmm not too sure, you might get some joy here, although I think the TFL photo library is more contemporary stuff than historical.
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Old June 30th, 2008, 11:51 PM   #2567
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Just thought I'd share some info on the Victoria Line upgrade after I received a presentation today...

The first 2009 Stock train is being tested during 'Engineering hours' (i.e. after the last passenger train) and I was shown film today of it in action, running off the new radio ATO system, which is working in parallel with the existing rail-bound codes.

The service frequency will be ramped up to 33tph from the current 27, with a peak service of 43 trains leading to the logistical problem of more trains than platforms (a headache during times of service disruption e.g. a suicide).

The test train will be joined by another and they will run earlier and earlier, running alongside passenger 67 stock until later this year when they will start taking passengers. Full introduction of production line trains will commence June 2009, when the new control centre will open at Northumberland Park. This will run in parallel with the current control room at Euston until all of the 67 Stock have been withdrawn, when it will close (although remain open for the Northern Line control centre).
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Old July 1st, 2008, 04:24 AM   #2568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Just thought I'd share some info on the Victoria Line upgrade after I received a presentation today...

The first 2009 Stock train is being tested during 'Engineering hours' (i.e. after the last passenger train) and I was shown film today of it in action, running off the new radio ATO system, which is working in parallel with the existing rail-bound codes.
Interesting... Sorry to be vague, but what was the new stock like?

And I didn't know whether to include this in the London Underground thread or this one, but the old 1938 Stock ran on the Northern line the other day on a heritage journey, here's a good pic of it alongside the existing modern rolling stock:

image hosted on flickr


There are some more pics here.
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Old July 1st, 2008, 03:38 PM   #2569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Interesting... Sorry to be vague, but what was the new stock like?
Real: http://tubesnaps.fotopic.net/c1280954.html
Mock-up: http://www.railfaneurope.net/pix/gb/...erior/pix.html
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Old July 1st, 2008, 04:03 PM   #2570
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Tubeman - what's with the start then emergency stop thing they do on trains when the signals are down?

This happened to me the other day heading towards town from Gunnersbury. The driver started and then halfway through the platform, came to an abrupt stop and then went very slowly until Turnham Green.
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 12:00 AM   #2571
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When a signal turns red a mechanical device (a trainstop) is raised at ground level that will operate the emergency brakes if a train tries to pass (it hits a lever on the train called a tripcock).

When a driver deliberately passes a red light, the train is tripped. The driver is then required to drive very slowly to the next signal to avoid causing an accident. This is enforced using a speed limiter on the train that applies for a fixed period after the train is tripped.

Drivers usually only do this when a signal is stuck on red and the light ahead is known to be safe.
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 12:16 AM   #2572
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If the Victoria Line is the busiest (in terms of passengers per km) then how come it has forward/back facing seats as you would think it would need to fit in many standing people? Or was that just a random train I caught that was like that?
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 12:27 AM   #2573
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Thanks, but I know what it looks like, I was more interested in... I don't know, the sound? There haven't been any clips of it moving, apart from a brief part in an ITV news report...
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 12:53 AM   #2574
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Thanks for the update Tubeman!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
The service frequency will be ramped up to 33tph from the current 27, with a peak service of 43 trains leading to the logistical problem of more trains than platforms (a headache during times of service disruption e.g. a suicide).
What speed increases can we expect?

Surely with all the upgrade work, suicides are likely to be the only things causing problems? Can we look forward to having a reliable metro line like every other city now?
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 02:01 AM   #2575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
The test train will be joined by another and they will run earlier and earlier, running alongside passenger 67 stock until later this year when they will start taking passengers. Full introduction of production line trains will commence June 2009, when the new control centre will open at Northumberland Park. This will run in parallel with the current control room at Euston until all of the 67 Stock have been withdrawn, when it will close (although remain open for the Northern Line control centre).
Are there going to be any problems running two different ATO systems at the same time?
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 10:54 AM   #2576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarbury View Post
If the Victoria Line is the busiest (in terms of passengers per km) then how come it has forward/back facing seats as you would think it would need to fit in many standing people? Or was that just a random train I caught that was like that?
I guess they didn't expect this many passengers on the line. The new stock will only have seats 'along the side'.
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Old July 2nd, 2008, 09:14 PM   #2577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U Thant View Post
When a signal turns red a mechanical device (a trainstop) is raised at ground level that will operate the emergency brakes if a train tries to pass (it hits a lever on the train called a tripcock).

When a driver deliberately passes a red light, the train is tripped. The driver is then required to drive very slowly to the next signal to avoid causing an accident. This is enforced using a speed limiter on the train that applies for a fixed period after the train is tripped.

Drivers usually only do this when a signal is stuck on red and the light ahead is known to be safe.
I wrote a huge response to the question yesterday complete with diagrams, and got '505 Internal server error' and lost it... I could have cried.

I'll re-write it if I can be arsed, but yes you've got the basics above.
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Old July 3rd, 2008, 01:27 AM   #2578
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Is Boris right when he says that with the increase in frequency of trains will create a lot of kinetic energy and then air conditioning will be essential?
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Old July 3rd, 2008, 03:44 AM   #2579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pricemazda View Post
Is Boris right when he says that with the increase in frequency of trains will create a lot of kinetic energy and then air conditioning will be essential?
To me, someone who is not in the know, it sounds like a load of tosh. An increase in trains will mean more draughts, which is a good thing in this weather! And the increase isn't that much, only from 28tph to 33tph (trains her hour).
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Old July 3rd, 2008, 08:33 AM   #2580
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I have no idea what Boris is going on about, but I would imagine he didn't come up with that himself, instead probably through some "expert". Then again, I never trust these "experts" either

I would be inclinded to agree with you iampuking, but then what do I know.
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