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Old July 27th, 2008, 11:16 AM   #2641
Songoten2554
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hello everybody here haven't been here for a long time so whatsup?

oh man i heard about the Gatwick Express is now part of Southern are they going to repaint the whole train green?

also umm is Gatwick Express well i want to know why did they do this why they just left it be Gatwick Express is with Southern better or worse?
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Old July 27th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #2642
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Originally Posted by Songoten2554 View Post
oh man i heard about the Gatwick Express is now part of Southern are they going to repaint the whole train green?
No, the brand is staying
Quote:
also umm is Gatwick Express well i want to know why did they do this why they just left it be Gatwick Express is with Southern better or worse?
Gatwick Express trains carry very few people while taking up a lot of track capacity on one of the most overcrowded routes in the country. So they want them to double as commuter trains, running to destinations south of Gatwick during morning and evening rush hour. Southern currently run those services, so it makes the most sense for them to run the whole Gatwick Express operation.
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Old July 27th, 2008, 12:49 PM   #2643
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I am quite aware that there will not be 100% agreement on anything punched into a forum. In my mind's eye, these trains share a similarity. If you don't see it or share my view, fine. It's over and done with. As for the patriotism factor. New York trains have flag decals on the front, rear and sides of their cars. That's what they choose to do, and it's been that way ever since 9/11. Although I personally was born on the Fourth Of July, Indepenence Day here in America, I do not assume what people feel worldwide for their country's flag will be the same. If the LU livery is w/r/b for any other reason than the color of a flag, then I stand corrected. If you want to disagree, I only ask for decorum. I was not raised by animals. I know good manners when I read them. My bottom line is that I greatly admire the way that the LU keeps it's rolling stock, inside and out. Although I know the only from photographs. The trains in NY's system are quite utilitarian. The stainless steel is a bore. They have used colors in the past, many of them and none would be considered patriotic. So, to quell the very idea that I think it is a worldwide practice to paint subways trains with the colors of their flag is an assumption I had regarding the LU. The one things that bothers me in your response is the anit-American undertone I felt. I am not one to brag about the current political state of my country. On the contrary, I am embarraassd by it. I live here though, and what happens here does effect me. For goodness sakes, we are talking about mass-transit. Let's not get the idea a flag has to be waved to prove who has a better system. I admire the LU system greatly. I was born in New York City, and have experience with that system, period. I am not anti-UK. I met my wife (who is of British-Scottish decent) when she lived in Scotland. She was born in Hendon. Our family lives in both countries, as well as here in the States..
With regard to the colour scheme of the tube: It's simply LU's corporate colours. There's a whole document on the colour scheme Transport for London use here http://www.scribd.com/doc/20162/Bran...olor-Standards - I'd be curious to know if another metro operator had such a dedication to presentation standards!

I'm really sorry you feel other forum members have anti-American undertones. The comments are reactionary and likely not meant in a derogatory way but rather a comparison to the fact paraded patriotism in to Britain just doesn't fit - though I'm sure you know that already with your family links (of course Scottish pride is a different matter...) - so people get a little uppity to suggest a public body would do something like painting a train in the colours of the national flag...

I do take a lot pride in your and other nationalities interest on this thread and LU. I'm passionate about London's transport.... So please continue to contribute here! You're under no obligation to respond or react to any particular comment. That's the beauty of internet forums
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Old July 27th, 2008, 07:18 PM   #2644
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Please allow me to digress.

I felt negatively about only one poster, and I have moved on. Thank you so much for your kindness and understanding. I sometimes come across as a moody bastard, but that's my personality. I also have a pretty good sense of humor. I'm from the old scholl of political incorrectnes, but because I work in a hospitla, I keep it in check constantly. I have gone through and am still going through a cancer crisis in my life. I only say this because I had about 11 weeks off from work while recovering from surgery. I had a kidney removed, and the cancer may have retrurned elsewhere, I'll know the results of further tests in about 4 weeks. I mention this because, as I mentioned, I had many weeks to read. I caught up on reading and consumed almost 20 books in that time, most of them on subway systems of the world. I found this site by accidental surfing and I love it's scope and representation. It's very good. I have been a wanna-be train operator (motorman is the old NY term) since childhood. But my parents moved us to Pennsylvania when I was 14, and that dream went up in smoke. I never returned to New York to live. So, in my 55th year, I have re-discovered all these publications and of course the net that provides me the data that interests me. the LU is such a great system and a great story. My main thrust on the livery of the carriages is the wonderment of their cleanliness, lack of grafitti and general good looking stature. I really thought that thye used their national colors purposely, but it doesn't matter. They look good any way. New York's trains are blah, and that's that. One last thing I've learned about communicating on the internet. It is a faceless and sometimes bothersome place. When people sense you are entering their territory, they tend to become offensive in an attempt to defend their point. I always ask that if they want to disagree, that's fine, but taking it a step further into personal agreession is not only uncalled for but unnecessary. There is no point in doing that, this is an outlet for relaxation, education and doing something positive with your time. That's all I want from this experience. When someone (and there always is someone) who wants to flex their personality behind the blind defenses of the net I go away. I don't want that from anyone. Sorry to be such a bother. I have cleared the air from my standpoint. From what I've seen, this is a pretty positive place and I hope to be around to enjoy it and be a part of it.

Last edited by hegneypl; July 27th, 2008 at 11:10 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old July 27th, 2008, 09:03 PM   #2645
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@hegneypl, I wish you the best for those test results in four weeks time. When you make it to London, make sure you visit the London Transport Museum. It's a bit dear, I guess with your exchange rate, but very worth it. Personally I think it's one of the best laid out urban transport museums in the world. I say urban, because it's smack in the middle of central London, so of cause not as large as it would be in a smaller city or outside in the countryside. It's so well done that even people without interest in transport can enjoy it.

Also, get an Oyster card as soon as you arrive, it will save you a lot of money on transport. Many tourists don't think they can use these and just buy paper tickets which costs a lot more.
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Old July 27th, 2008, 09:41 PM   #2646
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Any inside news on upcoming projects? Has anything changed since Boris came in when it comes to trains? Rumours are there could be 4 trains per hour on the Goblin as of next year. How's it going with Oyster on NR and are there official studies into a Hayes Bakerloo line extension?
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Old July 27th, 2008, 10:02 PM   #2647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
@hegneypl, I wish you the best for those test results in four weeks time. When you make it to London, make sure you visit the London Transport Museum. It's a bit dear, I guess with your exchange rate, but very worth it. Personally I think it's one of the best laid out urban transport museums in the world. I say urban, because it's smack in the middle of central London, so of cause not as large as it would be in a smaller city or outside in the countryside. It's so well done that even people without interest in transport can enjoy it.

Also, get an Oyster card as soon as you arrive, it will save you a lot of money on transport. Many tourists don't think they can use these and just buy paper tickets which costs a lot more.
Sounds great! Thanks for your support. It's day to day around here until I get a definitive answer, thanks again. Been doing lots of reading and checking on that museum. Have you been to the one in New York? It is always in a constant state of change, because they pull rolling stock out of to use for fan trips. It is in a ststaion that is no longer used. It has been used for Hollywood productions over the years as well. You can see it's contents on line and it shows many of the assorted types of rolling stock used. Although I don't recall riding them, I admire the BMT "Standards" the most. They pushed to envelope in style and accomodations for that era. As for your rolling stock, I love it all! It has certainly been designed to meet the criteria of the system to excellence. I know there are people who would disagree. My wife lived in the London area for 20 years, leaving around 1973. She seems to recall quite a bit of the system and where it goes, best connections, etc. I just want to visit the places she lived in and see the family. Then I plan to get very acquainted with the LU. I am currently reading "Underground London" by Stephen Smith. It's a good laugh and good for tidbits of history regarding what lies under the streets of London. Thank you for your time and understanding.

Last edited by hegneypl; July 27th, 2008 at 11:08 PM. Reason: even more spelling
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Old July 27th, 2008, 10:17 PM   #2648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hegneypl View Post
I am quite aware that there will not be 100% agreement on anything punched into a forum. In my mind's eye, these trains share a similarity. If you don't see it or share my view, fine. It's over and done with. As for the patriotism factor. New York trains have flag decals on the front, rear and sides of their cars. That's what they choose to do, and it's been that way ever since 9/11. Although I personally was born on the Fourth Of July, Indepenence Day here in America, I do not assume what people feel worldwide for their country's flag will be the same. If the LU livery is w/r/b for any other reason than the color of a flag, then I stand corrected. If you want to disagree, I only ask for decorum. I was not raised by animals. I know good manners when I read them. My bottom line is that I greatly admire the way that the LU keeps it's rolling stock, inside and out. Although I know the only from photographs. The trains in NY's system are quite utilitarian. The stainless steel is a bore. They have used colors in the past, many of them and none would be considered patriotic. So, to quell the very idea that I think it is a worldwide practice to paint subways trains with the colors of their flag is an assumption I had regarding the LU. The one things that bothers me in your response is the anit-American undertone I felt. I am not one to brag about the current political state of my country. On the contrary, I am embarraassd by it. I live here though, and what happens here does effect me. For goodness sakes, we are talking about mass-transit. Let's not get the idea a flag has to be waved to prove who has a better system. I admire the LU system greatly. I was born in New York City, and have experience with that system, period. I am not anti-UK. I met my wife (who is of British-Scottish decent) when she lived in Scotland. She was born in Hendon. Our family lives in both countries, as well as here in the States.
Impolite? A bit rich of you, branding me a "comedian" and now accusing me of behaving like an animal because I happenned to disagree with you! I could have quite easily mentioned all of the particular points that made your comparision completely absurd (headlights, window shape etc.) in my original post. And how an earth was I being "anti-American" (an absolutely nauseating expression it itself) by disagreeing with you? The comments proceeding mine were far more "anti-American" than any of mine were. You're letting your insecurities get in the way of your vision, mate.
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Old July 27th, 2008, 11:01 PM   #2649
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Are you a noid, a site nazi or just a troll?

If you find my comparison absurd, fine, that's your opinon. You either don't want to see or you fail to see. Granted. You want to judge my insecurities and my political feelings? Fine, you can do that too. I wouldn't dream of stepping in your way. You must be perfect. No foibles, no feelings and much less undertsanding. Iampuking. That was a good choice for you. I've seen other responses by you. You like to be right. You like to be controversial. Have a nice day.
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Old July 27th, 2008, 11:04 PM   #2650
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Sarflonlad, I checked into your link. Well done. It clears things up for me. I still marvel at the cleanliness of the LU carriage exteriors.

Last edited by hegneypl; July 27th, 2008 at 11:05 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old July 27th, 2008, 11:16 PM   #2651
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EDIT: My original comment was just being... An arsehole.

I have flaws like anyone else, but on a public forum I don't expect everyone to ignore them. Just like you calling me a comedian.

Anyway, what an earth does this have to do LU?

Last edited by iampuking; July 27th, 2008 at 11:27 PM.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 01:17 AM   #2652
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Yeah back on topic I think. I'm interested to hear some responses to sweek's questions for sure.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 03:54 AM   #2653
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
EDIT: My original comment was just being... An arsehole.

I have flaws like anyone else, but on a public forum I don't expect everyone to ignore them. Just like you calling me a comedian.

Anyway, what an earth does this have to do LU?
So as not to carry this on any further, I apologize if you didn't understand me, you disliked my photograph, and disagreed with my comparison. Everyone has a right to their view, opinon and conclusion.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 05:05 AM   #2654
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And sorry for coming across as rude.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 01:02 PM   #2655
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Ah yes, I remember seeing that.
Is it a regular thing? As in, a few times a year?
How hard is it to get tickets for the special trips?
Generally just big anniversaries I think... There's been a few centenaries recently (the Yerkes lines), but LU are reluctant to run vintage stock willy-nilly due to the risk of the train breaking down and shagging the service.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 01:27 PM   #2656
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Doubtful. The prototype version of the current livery was solely white and blue, and London Overground trains will be white, blue and orange.

I think you're viewing it through American eyes, where the flag is a national obsession in a way it just isn't in most other countries.
Yes as far as I'm concerned in the LT era everything was corporately painted red pretty much (e.g. 38TS, CO/CP, buses etc), which then gave way to 'white' for trains (actually a case of just leaving the aluminium bodies of the trains unpainted so they oxidised... e.g. R, 1959, A60, C, D etc stocks). This probably would have still been the case today were it not for graffiti, which is impossible to fully remove from aluminium as the paint stains the aluminium oxide. Therefore the refubs which began with the C Stocks in the 1990s reintroduced painted bodies, as have every subsequent new stock since the 1992.

There were a few prototype colour schemes tried out as you say, mostly on the 1972 MkI and A60 stocks if I remember correctly (there were some pretty nasty looking ones on the Northern Line's 1972 MkI's), but they all had combinations of red, white and blue. I think the eventual choice of blue skirt, white body and red doors was influenced by making the doors as visible as possible to the visually impaired.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 01:33 PM   #2657
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Any inside news on upcoming projects? Has anything changed since Boris came in when it comes to trains? Rumours are there could be 4 trains per hour on the Goblin as of next year. How's it going with Oyster on NR and are there official studies into a Hayes Bakerloo line extension?
Haven't really got any insider info I'm afraid, maybe U Thant can help?

The fact that Boris overturned the planned ticket office closures seems to bode well for the future... It at least indicates he's got no interest in running any sections of The Tube down to save money (although it could have been a welcome gift to the Trade unions... I dunno).

I fully expect Goblin's service frequency to be improved by LOROL.

Oyster on NR is pressing ahead, with barriers currently being installed at Waterloo.

The Bakerloo to hayes is still being 'looked at', but I don't know how advanced any plans are.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 01:59 PM   #2658
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The red doors are really very striking on those white slabs! I never thought about it being a safety issue, which makes perfect sense. You mentioned about oxidized bodies. There are hundreds of cars in New York that look like They have been weathered for decades. As a matter of fact, they have. The Staten Island RR has an entire fleet of former NY subway (SIR is owned and operated by the NYMTA) cars that look horrible. This line runs along the eastern shore of the island and it's exposed to the water around it. It is a former surface line that was electrified to run modified subway stock. The cars are 75 feet long and run in consists of 4. They are ragged.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 04:31 PM   #2659
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Any inside news on upcoming projects? Has anything changed since Boris came in when it comes to trains? Rumours are there could be 4 trains per hour on the Goblin as of next year. How's it going with Oyster on NR and are there official studies into a Hayes Bakerloo line extension?
No. Still hasn't showed his hand. From December 2009 definitely when the new trains arrive, could be earlier, but doubtful. Summer 2009 very likely, although the deal's still to be done. No idea, but money is pretty tight at the moment.
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Old July 28th, 2008, 04:43 PM   #2660
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The red doors are really very striking on those white slabs! I never thought about it being a safety issue, which makes perfect sense. You mentioned about oxidized bodies. There are hundreds of cars in New York that look like They have been weathered for decades. As a matter of fact, they have. The Staten Island RR has an entire fleet of former NY subway (SIR is owned and operated by the NYMTA) cars that look horrible. This line runs along the eastern shore of the island and it's exposed to the water around it. It is a former surface line that was electrified to run modified subway stock. The cars are 75 feet long and run in consists of 4. They are ragged.
That looks more like steel bodies to me, they're too shiny to be aluminium oxide, which ends up very dull / matt and a silvery white in colour.

The car nearest to the camera is unpainted aluminium, the one next to it is steel painted white to match the unpainted cars



(R Stock)
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