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Old August 14th, 2008, 02:04 AM   #2701
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OK might hold off till then. Hopefully shipping to New Zealand isn't too prohibitive
I recently bought "Underground to Everywhere: London's Underground Railway in the Life of the Capital" by Stephen Halliday, looking forward to that arriving.

Sorry kinda dragged things off topic.
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Old August 14th, 2008, 02:39 AM   #2702
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The Museum

Who runs or owns the museums which house your rolling stock? There is a big problem in NYC because some very old rolling stock is being neglected. Many people are disturbed, but not enough to do anything about it thmesleves. Much of the restoration work is done on a volunteer basis. Storage is also an issue as the peices sit outdoors. I've seen your museums on line and they are totally stunning. Everything looks well done. Frank
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Old August 14th, 2008, 08:11 AM   #2703
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Cheers... Be careful you get the right edition, I'm trying to get the second edition finished in time for the Christmas market. It's much better cartography than the first (in my humble opinion).
I'll certainly get the new edition as soon as it comes out. I still enjoy going through your current one. Can I ask what are the main changes to the new edition?
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Old August 14th, 2008, 11:38 AM   #2704
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I'll certainly get the new edition as soon as it comes out. I still enjoy going through your current one. Can I ask what are the main changes to the new edition?
The second edition has much refined cartography: I've ditched the 'fat line = 2 tracks, thin line = 1 track' and circular splodges for stations and mapped every track, crossover, siding and most importantly platform. I'll post a sample page when I get home. Mapping every track within the same map area has been a real challenge, especially when we're talking depots with 30+ roads, but I've pulled it off and I'm really pleased with the result.

I've also utilised oldmaps.co.uk to access old Ordnance Survey maps to get accurate representations of closed goods facilities etc, such that now I'm confident that the atlas is a near-complete record.
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Old August 14th, 2008, 11:42 AM   #2705
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Who runs or owns the museums which house your rolling stock? There is a big problem in NYC because some very old rolling stock is being neglected. Many people are disturbed, but not enough to do anything about it thmesleves. Much of the restoration work is done on a volunteer basis. Storage is also an issue as the peices sit outdoors. I've seen your museums on line and they are totally stunning. Everything looks well done. Frank
It's part of the London Transport Museum and as such run by TFL ultimately.

Although we've preserved a few good examples of old rolling stock, many stocks have been completely scrapped upon withdrawal which is a real shame. People might not get particularly sentimental about the A, C or D stocks when they're withdrawn over the next 10 years, but it would be very regretful if we didn't manage to preserve examples of them. Private collectors have bought some cars, but these generally tend to sit rusting in fields under tarpaulin as they are of no use to most preserved railways because of their electrification.

I think the Epping-Ongar branch should be turned into a 'living museum' of working vintage Underground stocks. I think it would be a real money-spinner to give tourists the opportunity to ride 1938 or R Stocks of a weekend. I'd certainly go!
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Old August 14th, 2008, 01:40 PM   #2706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
The second edition has much refined cartography: I've ditched the 'fat line = 2 tracks, thin line = 1 track' and circular splodges for stations and mapped every track, crossover, siding and most importantly platform. I'll post a sample page when I get home. Mapping every track within the same map area has been a real challenge, especially when we're talking depots with 30+ roads, but I've pulled it off and I'm really pleased with the result.

I've also utilised oldmaps.co.uk to access old Ordnance Survey maps to get accurate representations of closed goods facilities etc, such that now I'm confident that the atlas is a near-complete record.
Fantastic stuff. You have a customer here :O) Any chance the area coverage was slightly increased? ;O) probably not as I remember your reasons against it from before, but I can always hope.
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Old August 14th, 2008, 01:45 PM   #2707
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Fantastic stuff. You have a customer here :O) Any chance the area coverage was slightly increased? ;O) probably not as I remember your reasons against it from before, but I can always hope.
I guess the ultimate aim, one day, is to map the entire UK... But that is many years away. As it is coverage is pretty much within the M25, I might stray a little further south to complete the Tattenham Corner and Caterham branches, but that would be it for now.
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Old August 14th, 2008, 02:30 PM   #2708
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what (actively - ie not the linking of the two Uxbridge branches) proposed projects does it have on it? Borough Market Quadrupleing? the various junction improvements south of London Bridge? Crossrail? Airtrack? Dagenham Dock DLR? Any others? Croxely Link was on the old one, so it'll be on the new one.
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Old August 14th, 2008, 03:13 PM   #2709
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what (actively - ie not the linking of the two Uxbridge branches) proposed projects does it have on it? Borough Market Quadrupleing? the various junction improvements south of London Bridge? Crossrail? Airtrack? Dagenham Dock DLR? Any others? Croxely Link was on the old one, so it'll be on the new one.
Yes Croxley link (still), Dagenham Dock, Airtrack... I haven't got any plans of the layout for the Thameslink 2000 improvements and again shied away from including Crossrail mainly because the Central London sections of the map are jam-packed enough... I've resolved to only include Crossrail once / if they actually start building the thing.

You'll see what I mean when I post a sample page this evening.

I have less qualms about projects like Dagenham Dock DLR because to be blunt they're easier to squeeze in (and on balance much more likely to actually get built)!
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Old August 14th, 2008, 03:30 PM   #2710
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The only thing I can see wrong on page 32 is the position of Victoria. It should be further north so the tube station is more level with St James's Park, and the District line does a big S bend to get down to Sloane Square (you can see some of the open cutting on Google Earth).

Are you including the dismantled (and proposed to be rebuilt) West Anglia Main Line four tracking? It's missing from the current edition.
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Old August 14th, 2008, 05:14 PM   #2711
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The only thing I can see wrong on page 32 is the position of Victoria. It should be further north so the tube station is more level with St James's Park, and the District line does a big S bend to get down to Sloane Square (you can see some of the open cutting on Google Earth).

Are you including the dismantled (and proposed to be rebuilt) West Anglia Main Line four tracking? It's missing from the current edition.
I have to admit the courses of lines and station positions are not GPS-perfect. I actually mapped London by simply using a bogstandard A to Z as a guide: each atlas page is 4 A to Z pages (check it if you don't believe me!) with the courses of lines traced onto the map by eye. With the re-drawing process I've just been through I have refined line courses somewhat (mostly the Tube line twists & turns under Central London), but its not perfect.

West Anglia main line? Not too sure which line you're referring to...

Do you mean the Lea Valley Line? If yes I've included the abandoned pair of tracks. I can't think which other line you'd mean.

As an aside have you got access to any revised layouts in the Borough / London Bridge area courtesy of Thameslink 2000? I've noticed something akin to an oil rig doing something in the vicitnity of Blackfriars rail bridge over the past few weeks... river bed samples I guess, or maybe foundations?
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Old August 14th, 2008, 07:01 PM   #2712
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West Anglia Main Line = Lea Valley Line through Tottenham Hale

See here for the Borough Market viaduct route and here for diagrams of Farringdon, Blackfriars and London Bridge. I can forward you a PDF diagram of the Bermondsey dive-under too.

Last edited by U Thant; August 14th, 2008 at 07:02 PM. Reason: changing html links to bbcode
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Old August 14th, 2008, 07:43 PM   #2713
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Quote:
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West Anglia Main Line = Lea Valley Line through Tottenham Hale

See here for the Borough Market viaduct route and here for diagrams of Farringdon, Blackfriars and London Bridge. I can forward you a PDF diagram of the Bermondsey dive-under too.
Yes thanks for confirming... I've got the quadruple track from Coppermill North Junction to north of Angel Road... It was a little hard to distinguish where it ends on the OS maps, but it certainly seemed to end south of Ponders End.

Many thanks for the links, too!
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Old August 15th, 2008, 12:48 AM   #2714
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Sorry guys was kicked off my PC earlier than usual tonight (Other half went to bed) so haven't been able to post the grand unveiling of a sample of the Second edition. On the 'other' PC at the mo.
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Old August 15th, 2008, 01:22 AM   #2715
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More about museum pieces. Tubeman

Tubeman, there are several fromerly working sets of car types that once ran for fan trips but have since been left to sit. The BMT Standards and Triplex are amongst them and are considered two of their best original designs. These were designed and built prior to the city's purchase of all the lines after they built there own. Hence, some say these cars are foster children and not of original company design. So, that could mean they don't feel it is necessary to preserve them at this time of sever financial constraint. I like the idea of a living museum. That concept could well fit into NY's system if the money were available to provide the power for the project. I also did not realize that the LU was co-owned by private concerns. It makes perfect sense to do so, as the results plainly show.
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Old August 15th, 2008, 08:20 AM   #2716
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Quote:
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I have to admit the courses of lines and station positions are not GPS-perfect. I actually mapped London by simply using a bogstandard A to Z as a guide: each atlas page is 4 A to Z pages (check it if you don't believe me!) with the courses of lines traced onto the map by eye. With the re-drawing process I've just been through I have refined line courses somewhat (mostly the Tube line twists & turns under Central London), but its not perfect.
I can see in the 3rd edition you adding a fold out map in an inlay sleeve ;O) Looking forward to seeing your sample
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Old August 15th, 2008, 01:23 PM   #2717
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I can see in the 3rd edition you adding a fold out map in an inlay sleeve ;O) Looking forward to seeing your sample
I am actually planning on stitching together the Central London section to produce a folding version. I've done it in a rudimentary manner by simply printing pages off and using scissors and sellotape, and it looks very good. Not too sure how to do it for real on Visio though, I can't see a way of increasing the page size.
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Old August 15th, 2008, 01:56 PM   #2718
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Tubeman, there are several fromerly working sets of car types that once ran for fan trips but have since been left to sit. The BMT Standards and Triplex are amongst them and are considered two of their best original designs. These were designed and built prior to the city's purchase of all the lines after they built there own. Hence, some say these cars are foster children and not of original company design. So, that could mean they don't feel it is necessary to preserve them at this time of sever financial constraint. I like the idea of a living museum. That concept could well fit into NY's system if the money were available to provide the power for the project. I also did not realize that the LU was co-owned by private concerns. It makes perfect sense to do so, as the results plainly show.
The only preserved trains which seem to be 'allowed out' are one train of 1938 Stock and 'Sarah Siddons', which is one of the Metropolitan Line's electric locos. It's a real shame, I'd love to see an R or a CO/CP stock running about on the Subsurface lines for special events... I know there are motor cars at the Acton Museum, but I doubt there's anything close to a working train unit anywhere.
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Old August 15th, 2008, 07:54 PM   #2719
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Quote:
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It's part of the London Transport Museum and as such run by TFL ultimately.

Although we've preserved a few good examples of old rolling stock, many stocks have been completely scrapped upon withdrawal which is a real shame. People might not get particularly sentimental about the A, C or D stocks when they're withdrawn over the next 10 years, but it would be very regretful if we didn't manage to preserve examples of them. Private collectors have bought some cars, but these generally tend to sit rusting in fields under tarpaulin as they are of no use to most preserved railways because of their electrification.

I think the Epping-Ongar branch should be turned into a 'living museum' of working vintage Underground stocks. I think it would be a real money-spinner to give tourists the opportunity to ride 1938 or R Stocks of a weekend. I'd certainly go!

Isn't that what the group behind the reopening want to do.....I thought I read about it on a website somewhere. Would love to see it happen and I would be a few steps behind you for tickets Tubeman
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Old August 15th, 2008, 08:27 PM   #2720
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Or is there a 'real' typo I've missed?!
Heh, heh, I was just being mischievous - I didn't even have the book to hand when I wrote that It would have been cool if I'd picked page 45 though (where you typed Ashstead instead of Ashtead ).
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