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Old August 20th, 2008, 10:07 PM   #2761
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What years was that operational? We had a 'Standard' Stock too, which worked the majority of the Tube lines for much of the middle of the 20th century (1923 onwards).



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Old August 21st, 2008, 01:42 AM   #2762
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Why won't the new 2009 Stock mean 100km/h speeds for the Victoria line like they were when the Central received it's new stock?
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Old August 21st, 2008, 02:19 AM   #2763
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Tubeman/Standards

They first appeared in service in 1914. In company nomenclature they were AB units. They kept on building them until 1924, after a total of 850. The name Standard was more or less coined in-house to let the competition know that they meant business. They set the standard in mass-transit design. They were kept in use until that late 1960's.

Last edited by hegneypl; August 21st, 2008 at 02:20 AM. Reason: add
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Old August 21st, 2008, 08:31 AM   #2764
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Tubeman,
I was wondering what the maximum service frequency operated across the flat junctions on the SSL is.
ta
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Old August 21st, 2008, 10:27 AM   #2765
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Tubeman,
I was wondering what the maximum service frequency operated across the flat junctions on the SSL is.
ta
Well the southern half of the Circle (i.e. Gloucester Road to Tower Hill) manages 28tph off-peak with the four services offering a train every 8 minutes (Richmond-Upminster, Wimbledon-Upminster, Ealing-Tower Hill and Circle Line). In addition in the peaks a few extra trains are laid on, so it would exceed 30tph. I assume similar is the case for the Baker Street-Liverpool Street section.

I think 30 tph is pretty much the comfortable limit operationally with unevenly spaced stations and numerous flat junctions.
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Old August 21st, 2008, 10:37 AM   #2766
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Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Why won't the new 2009 Stock mean 100km/h speeds for the Victoria line like they were when the Central received it's new stock?
I haven't heard that, but I'm sure there's no limitation on the train's capabilities as such. I guess trains can only get up so much speed before having to brake for the next station, the Central Line can achieve 100kmh simply due to very long runs between stations on the overground sections. I know there are also long runs on the Vic, notably Seven Sisters to Finsbury Park, but maybe the current 50mph / 80kmh already achieved by the 67 stock on that run is as fast as the 09 stock will manage.
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Old August 21st, 2008, 10:52 AM   #2767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hegneypl View Post
They first appeared in service in 1914. In company nomenclature they were AB units. They kept on building them until 1924, after a total of 850. The name Standard was more or less coined in-house to let the competition know that they meant business. They set the standard in mass-transit design. They were kept in use until that late 1960's.
Pretty similar story to our 'Standards' then in terms of vintage. As you can see in the photos, they had a large proportion of the leading car dedicated to the Traction motors and other equipment as when designed we didn't yet have the technology to fit it all under the cars. The Classic 1938 Stock was the first Tube stock to successfully incorporate the Traction motors into the bogeys and place all the other equipment under the cars or under the seats.
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Old August 21st, 2008, 09:03 PM   #2768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
I haven't heard that, but I'm sure there's no limitation on the train's capabilities as such. I guess trains can only get up so much speed before having to brake for the next station, the Central Line can achieve 100kmh simply due to very long runs between stations on the overground sections. I know there are also long runs on the Vic, notably Seven Sisters to Finsbury Park, but maybe the current 50mph / 80kmh already achieved by the 67 stock on that run is as fast as the 09 stock will manage.
Thanks for the reply, do you think the Victoria line is only going to be 80km/h because of the Central line's motor problems when it ran at 100km/h?
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Old August 21st, 2008, 09:06 PM   #2769
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Video showing the new 2009 Stock for the Victoria line, part of a BBC news report. Particularly interesting (for me) because you can hear it's sound...

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Old August 21st, 2008, 11:52 PM   #2770
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
London Overground is not commuter rail, it is orbital rail.
We (non english speakers) tend to use "comuter" for a lack of a better word.

Here we call them "urbanos" (urban trains) but I don't hear that expression anywhere else:

CP Lisboa Urban train:


Metropolitano de Lisboa:



LU is not like any of those ... neither LO ... and what is "orbital" rail ??? space shuttle ?? (just kidding)
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 03:42 AM   #2771
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Oh god you're posting here now.

Orbital rail orbits the city centre, is it really so hard to grasp?
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 05:14 AM   #2772
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Quote:
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Oh god you're posting here now.

Orbital rail orbits the city centre, is it really so hard to grasp?
Oh god you're posting here now.


Orbital Rail ... nice catchy name.
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 11:38 AM   #2773
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Take it outside please ladies
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 02:04 PM   #2774
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Thanks for the reply, do you think the Victoria line is only going to be 80km/h because of the Central line's motor problems when it ran at 100km/h?
No, I very much doubt that. The limitations on the 1992 Stock are specifically because of design flaws discovered after Chancery Lane.

The 1967 Stock already have pretty nippy acceleration / braking so I don't know if the 2009 Stock will improve on it that much, hence probably not surpassing the current 80kmh reached between Seven Sisters and Finsbury Park. I'd also have concerns about ride quality and noise if speeds got any faster. It's ok on the JLE because those are new concrete-lined tunnels with flat-bottomed, welded rail leading to better / quieter journies at high speeds, but the Victoria Line is 40 years old and traditional metal-lined Tube tunnel.
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 03:14 PM   #2775
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
No, I very much doubt that. The limitations on the 1992 Stock are specifically because of design flaws discovered after Chancery Lane.

The 1967 Stock already have pretty nippy acceleration / braking so I don't know if the 2009 Stock will improve on it that much, hence probably not surpassing the current 80kmh reached between Seven Sisters and Finsbury Park. I'd also have concerns about ride quality and noise if speeds got any faster. It's ok on the JLE because those are new concrete-lined tunnels with flat-bottomed, welded rail leading to better / quieter journies at high speeds, but the Victoria Line is 40 years old and traditional metal-lined Tube tunnel.
Those design flaws are that the vibration at 100km/h wore the motors making them more likely to come off, AFAIK.

Last time I heard, the increased performance of the 2009 Stock is something that will allow shorter gaps between the trains. And of course the 1967 Stock has sluggish acceleration, get on the Central line and the difference is crystal clear. Isn't the whole point of replacing track is to improve ride quality and noise, and much of the Victoria line is in concrete tunnels, anyway.
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 04:43 PM   #2776
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If an orbital rail orbits the city center, then the Central Line isn't an orbital as it passes right through the city center.
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 09:47 PM   #2777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Pretty similar story to our 'Standards' then in terms of vintage. As you can see in the photos, they had a large proportion of the leading car dedicated to the Traction motors and other equipment as when designed we didn't yet have the technology to fit it all under the cars. The Classic 1938 Stock was the first Tube stock to successfully incorporate the Traction motors into the bogeys and place all the other equipment under the cars or under the seats.
These beasts were 67 feet long. When the City of NY took over the operation of all el's and subways, the original line had 40 foot cars. The other 2 lines had 60 to 75 foot cars. If they had standardized all the division back then, it would have been less costly to purchase rolling stock. Of course, the larger cars are smoother in operation and ride quality. Even the current fleet, while they are disposing of some 1964 stock, those old beasts are somewhat smoother than even the newer units. Those 1914 units, were very sturdy and they were a joy to ride. I rode them as a youngster before leaving New York for good.
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Old August 24th, 2008, 10:35 AM   #2778
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i thought the victoria Line was just as modern as the Jubliee Line i mean why is it that the victoria is not fast yet its modern?
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Old August 24th, 2008, 10:49 AM   #2779
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i thought the victoria Line was just as modern as the Jubliee Line i mean why is it that the victoria is not fast yet its modern?
The Victoria Line is 40 years old and still (for now) uses 40 year old trains. The fact it's still relatively modern compared to some other lines is testament to how advanced it was when it was opened. It is pretty fast too, up to 80kmh (50mph).
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Old August 26th, 2008, 04:18 PM   #2780
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Et voila! You saw it here first!
That is great, Tubeman! What program are you using?
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