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Old August 28th, 2008, 04:13 PM   #2801
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Originally Posted by sweek View Post
How much staff does LU have, and how many of them are based at stations? I'm not sure if you can actually answer these questions but it is interesting.
London Underground Ltd has around 12,000 employees. I think about 3,000 of these are drivers, about another 1,000 Junior and Middle operational managers, so the remaining 8,000 are frontline station staff and members of various supporting areas of the business (e.g. Safety, Quality & Environment, Operational Learning, Strategy & Service Development etc)... I don't know the exact breakdown. Before the advent of PPP I think we had near enough 20,000 employees as all the cleaners, track workers, fleet maintainers etc were LU employees.
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Old August 28th, 2008, 11:23 PM   #2802
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Last time that I was in london (and it was almost 2 years ago) there was a progam in the local TV (BBC or sky news??) avbout a "dangerous terrorist" ... when in fact it was just a guy doing grafitty on the LUL .

But the law enformcent on the london metor was treating it as pure acts of terrorism ... or so it seamed.

Need any better explanation as to "how & why" trains/buses are so clean in the UK ??? they just don't have a middle term between "inocent" and "criminal" so it is harder to do anything that could be considered offensive since it imediately becames a crime ... specialy where it involves british "transport police" like in the "cleanness" of trains from graffity.

but nonetheless the "policy" of removing trains from regular operation as soon as a "tag" apears also seems to be a great responsable for their trains to apear "cleaner".
People treat cleaner things with more respect.

TFL's policy can be extreme sometimes on cleanliness. Nothing ****s me off more than someone getting sick on the night bus and it being taken out of service. But is does the trick. A constant army of cleaners on stations and trains. Regular 'deep cleans' for trains and buses themselves.

Probably an EU elf and safety thing really... but I'll let LU take credit for it.
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Old August 29th, 2008, 01:40 AM   #2803
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People treat cleaner things with more respect.

TFL's policy can be extreme sometimes on cleanliness. Nothing ****s me off more than someone getting sick on the night bus and it being taken out of service. But is does the trick. A constant army of cleaners on stations and trains. Regular 'deep cleans' for trains and buses themselves.

Probably an EU elf and safety thing really... but I'll let LU take credit for it.
As the debate began from comments about the Rotterdam and Amsterdam trains / trams being awash with vomit, litter and graffiti I guess perhaps TFL / LU can take the credit rather than the EU.
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Old September 1st, 2008, 09:28 PM   #2804
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Tubeman, why is The Central Line so hot compared to all the other deep level lines? Bank station in particular.
I think the Central, Victoria and Bakerloo all have a good shout for 'hottest' title. I don't recall the Central Line being so hot pre-1992 Stock so it might be something to do with the regenerative braking. Some stations are hotter than others on account of being more warren-like, and Bank is certainly in that category with a lot of underground space and very little ventilation. I always find Oxford Circus stifling, the fact it's where all three lines converge doesn't help.

The Bakerloo and Victoria are explicable on account of the Bakerloo being essentially a long deep-level siding with no effective ventilation at the southern end (regardless of ventilation shafts and stations, by far the most effective method of air circulation is an opening to the outside world with trains running in and out), and Victoria is entirely underground although ventilation shafts were incorporated.

The Central Line is intersting, because although there is a long subterranean run (White City to Stratford), there are plenty equally or more long (e.g. Morden to East Finchley / Golders Green via Bank or Charing Cross, Finchley Road to Canning Town, Barons Court to Arnos Grove)... so I can only explain it as being connected to the stock and the rapid acceleration / strong braking.
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Old September 2nd, 2008, 02:18 AM   #2805
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I'm curious as to whether running the tube 24 hours a day has been considered, like New York does.
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Old September 2nd, 2008, 09:13 AM   #2806
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I'm curious as to whether running the tube 24 hours a day has been considered, like New York does.
I read yesterday that they will be trying this during the Olympics. Due to maintenance works it's not an option to do this all the time, though.
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Old September 2nd, 2008, 01:18 PM   #2807
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New York has double tracks, which means if they need to close one track the line can still operate. London only has single tracks, so any cleaning or repairs means the line has to close.

It really only closes for 5 hours out of 24
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Old September 2nd, 2008, 02:37 PM   #2808
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New York has double tracks, which means if they need to close one track the line can still operate. London only has single tracks, so any cleaning or repairs means the line has to close.

It really only closes for 5 hours out of 24
Less than that really... First train movements on some lines can be as early as 04:30, and last as late as 01:45, it's actually effectively less than 3 hours of 'engineering hours' in some areas. Although yes as a general rule of thumb LU provides trains between the hours of 05:30 and 00:30 through Central London, the more extreme traffic hours occur out on the extremities of long lines in order to access depots.

We could run 24 hours, but not indefinitely. I think going for 2 continuous weeks during the Olympics would come up against stiff opposition on the Health & Safety front due to lack of inspections / maintenance. The extra staffing costs would be phenomenal too.

We might see continuous running from Friday morning to Sunday night at some point (i.e. all night Friday and Saturday), but this wipes out the most useful stretch of 'Engineering hours' (Saturday night, useful because it's longer due to later start-up Sunday).

I'm personally opposed to any extension simply because of the amount of antisocial / drunken behaviour which occurs after Midnight at the weekends. So many trains are withdrawn due to vomit / urine and there are so many incidents of 'near misses' between customers and trains, fights, assaults on staff etc that I think it's a false economy. Let the nightbuses take the strain and allow the maintenance to carry on unhindered.
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Old September 2nd, 2008, 03:01 PM   #2809
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What remedies have LU employed for the heat this summer on the tube?
I know in previous years they've put iceblocks on trains somewhere.

I've never experienced a tube station in summer time, but even in winter they were horribly warm - very oppressive heat, felt like an Australian summer. Can only imagine summer would be horrendous.
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Old September 2nd, 2008, 03:38 PM   #2810
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What remedies have LU employed for the heat this summer on the tube?
I know in previous years they've put iceblocks on trains somewhere.

I've never experienced a tube station in summer time, but even in winter they were horribly warm - very oppressive heat, felt like an Australian summer. Can only imagine summer would be horrendous.
Big fans strategically placed in stations to improve airflow... can't say they appear to do much good. The groundwater cooling trial continues at Victoria I believe. It really is an issue, I caught the Central Line home just 4 stops last night and was drenched in sweat when I got off, and it wasn't even that busy or that warm.

We should be grateful for such a rubbish summer in terms of weather, unusually we've not seen 30C+ once.

I'm not a fan of heat at the best of times and sweat easily, so I have to concede I'm happy I get the bus to and from work.
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Old September 2nd, 2008, 05:41 PM   #2811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
I'm personally opposed to any extension simply because of the amount of antisocial / drunken behaviour which occurs after Midnight at the weekends. So many trains are withdrawn due to vomit / urine and there are so many incidents of 'near misses' between customers and trains, fights, assaults on staff etc that I think it's a false economy. Let the nightbuses take the strain and allow the maintenance to carry on unhindered.
I can kind of understand the reasoning, and obviously a bus driver is 'closer' to its passengers than a train driver in his cabin.
For a lot of passengers the last tube is still pretty much the last way of getting home, though, even with the great night bus system we have. Maybe it'd be possible have more express night buses following tube line routes, like they have in certain cities (Madrid I think?) and we have for parts of the Northern Line.
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 02:07 AM   #2812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweek View Post
I can kind of understand the reasoning, and obviously a bus driver is 'closer' to its passengers than a train driver in his cabin.
For a lot of passengers the last tube is still pretty much the last way of getting home, though, even with the great night bus system we have. Maybe it'd be possible have more express night buses following tube line routes, like they have in certain cities (Madrid I think?) and we have for parts of the Northern Line.
Yeh why not just follow the tube routes or similar for the hours in which the lines arent running? Surely people would use these routes due to familiarity with the stops.
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 03:11 AM   #2813
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Hi Tubeman

Here's a question from a mailing list I'm a member of. Maybe you can help?:

Quote:
I recently used the underground station at Lambeth. Whilst using the spiral stair case, I came across a large, metal blue coloured door with handles on it. It looked just like a blast door one would expect to find on the entrance to a bunker.

Can anybody tell me more about this metal door? And why a blast door style-door would be inside Lambeth tube station?
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 07:12 AM   #2814
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Yeh why not just follow the tube routes or similar for the hours in which the lines arent running? Surely people would use these routes due to familiarity with the stops.
I know it works well in Berlin. When the U-bahn stops, buses take over and ply the same routes as the U-bahn.
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 10:23 AM   #2815
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I can kind of understand the reasoning, and obviously a bus driver is 'closer' to its passengers than a train driver in his cabin.
For a lot of passengers the last tube is still pretty much the last way of getting home, though, even with the great night bus system we have. Maybe it'd be possible have more express night buses following tube line routes, like they have in certain cities (Madrid I think?) and we have for parts of the Northern Line.
The trouble with that is that often it is not easy to 'link' all the stations on many lines with bus routes as aside from older deep-level tubes under Central London often lines don't follow main roads. The Northern Line is fairly unusual in that it is built under main roads all the way from South Wimbledon to Hampstead / East Finchley. Most lines would involve so much driving up back streets and twists & turns for a bus to call 'all stations' that the journey would be far too long: imagine trying to drive to all District Line stations and stop outside between Earl's Court and Richmond, for example... It's far better / quicker to just have nightbus routes using the radial road routes, sometimes this follows Tube lines pretty effectively, but sometimes not. Many many LU stations are on pretty minor roads (e.g. East Acton, Ravenscourt Park, Southfields, Wimbledon Park, Kew Gardens, Parson's Green etc).

Most other cities have their metro lines almost exclusively built under major roads, so bus routes following them are easier to execute.
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 10:27 AM   #2816
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Hi Tubeman

Here's a question from a mailing list I'm a member of. Maybe you can help?:
Pass. I know at some locations the lift shafts are adjacent to the spiral staircases and lifts can be cross-evacuated onto them... If a lift fails it needs to be 'hand wound' (a very slow process) to the nearest landing, having an intervention point halfway up gives another option. The door might simply be this intervention point.

That's a guess though!
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 05:57 PM   #2817
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Quote:
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I don't recall the Central Line being so hot pre-1992 Stock so it might be something to do with the regenerative braking.
Could the fact that all axles are motored have something to do with it?
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 07:52 PM   #2818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Pass. I know at some locations the lift shafts are adjacent to the spiral staircases and lifts can be cross-evacuated onto them... If a lift fails it needs to be 'hand wound' (a very slow process) to the nearest landing, having an intervention point halfway up gives another option. The door might simply be this intervention point.

That's a guess though!
Wasn't North Lambeth used during the war for storing things from nearby St Thomas' and the old War information offices (Now the Central office of information) I seem to remember somewhere reading these were secured by blast proof doors and in many cases these areas still exist just blocked off.

As for 24 hour operating, the underground does run all night on new years eve and has done for the past few years hasn't it tubeman??
I think the first time was during the millenium wasn't it??

Last edited by zfreeman; September 3rd, 2008 at 07:54 PM. Reason: 24 hour stuff
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 07:55 PM   #2819
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Wasn't North Lambeth used during the war for storing things from nearby St Thomas' and the old War information offices (Now the Central office of information) I seem to remember somewhere reading these were secured by blast proof doors and in many cases these areas still exist just blocked off.
I don't see why not... I share a floor with the Group Station manager of the Charing Cross Group (which includes Lambeth North) so I should ask him really!
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Old September 3rd, 2008, 07:56 PM   #2820
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Could the fact that all axles are motored have something to do with it?
Pretty likely I guess, that and as I said the regenerative braking... any conversion of kinetic into electrical energy will likely produce heat I suppose.
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