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Old October 10th, 2008, 03:08 PM   #2921
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jarbury View Post
Isn't it best to encourage everyone to touch in, for statistical purposes as much as anything?
I think so, personally. I always touch in.
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Old October 11th, 2008, 01:44 AM   #2922
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sweek View Post
Dwelling times would go up, and the bendy buses are there exactly to combat that problem on the busiest bus lines.
How would dwell times go up? The readers are inside the bus so you would be on before you touched in so that wouldn't slow the bus any more. Many (tram) systems operate like this with no adverse effects.

I know this is really off topic, but I saw somewhere where it said that the cost of conductors on the bendies would be more than the cost of the estimated fare evasion.
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Old October 11th, 2008, 09:35 AM   #2923
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajw373 View Post
How would dwell times go up? The readers are inside the bus so you would be on before you touched in so that wouldn't slow the bus any more. Many (tram) systems operate like this with no adverse effects.

I know this is really off topic, but I saw somewhere where it said that the cost of conductors on the bendies would be more than the cost of the estimated fare evasion.
I think you underestimate how many people use these buses and how packed they are. I use the 29 very frequently and very often I can't even research the readers. If everyone had to get out their Oyster card and touch in there would be a queue forming from the readers going all the way outside the bus because everyone has to reach the readers.

Besides, there are still enough paper travelcard holders on these bus routes that cannot possibly touch in, making it quite useless for statistics and/or making sure that everyone's paying.
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Old October 11th, 2008, 04:54 PM   #2924
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More readers needed. Just about every system in europe has tickets that require validation.
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Old October 11th, 2008, 05:21 PM   #2925
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Indeed, the UK is rather the exception - most tickets in Europe are brought off the bus, and validated on it by use of a machine. Catches me out quite often when on buses over there, that I need to validate my ticket when on the bus.
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Old October 11th, 2008, 07:00 PM   #2926
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This may be a question answered elsewhere, slightly further back in the thread there was a question that was about extending the Victoria line to a Leytonstone Junction.

I always thought the idea was to eventually take the Vic Line up to Chingford thereby converting the BR Stub line from Liverpool Street.

The idea of a RER style system appeals to me and feel that Crossrail and any future infrastructure should be based on a City-Regional style system rather than just a City style tube line.....
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Old October 12th, 2008, 11:05 AM   #2927
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zfreeman View Post
This may be a question answered elsewhere, slightly further back in the thread there was a question that was about extending the Victoria line to a Leytonstone Junction.

I always thought the idea was to eventually take the Vic Line up to Chingford thereby converting the BR Stub line from Liverpool Street.

The idea of a RER style system appeals to me and feel that Crossrail and any future infrastructure should be based on a City-Regional style system rather than just a City style tube line.....
I don't think that was ever the idea. One extra stop in Walthamstow is all that was every officially planned on that end.

The Victoria line has shown just how successful an actual tube line can be, and when serving areas that aren't served by tube yet (like with the Chelsea-Hackney line), the number of passengers in London itself make it pretty impossible to take the line much further out.

Chelsea-Hackney has changed it's route quite often and this one has included the Chingford branch, by the way.
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Old October 12th, 2008, 11:06 AM   #2928
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zfreeman View Post
This may be a question answered elsewhere, slightly further back in the thread there was a question that was about extending the Victoria line to a Leytonstone Junction.

I always thought the idea was to eventually take the Vic Line up to Chingford thereby converting the BR Stub line from Liverpool Street.
I'll have to do some digging as to what the original intention for the Vic line was... I'd suggest that Chingford must have been disregarded if it ever was the intended eastern / northern end, as it would have made more sense to commence construction at the eastern tunnel portal (I'm guessing Wood Street) than at the underground terminus at Walthamstow Central (or Hoe Street as it then was). Certainly it might have been given consideration at one point, as the alignment of the overrun tunnel at Walthamstow Central would have made onward construction up to take over the Chingford Branch pretty straightforward.

Perhaps the fact that it was very much an ATO test bed scared them off? There would have been concerns about automatic braking performance in wet or icy conditions, so as soon as the Victoria Line was decided to be ATO, any hopes of overground sections was disregarded.
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Old October 12th, 2008, 12:58 PM   #2929
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The Victoria Line was built on a very small budget and taking over a perfectly good rail service wouldn't have been a great use of that money. I bet the good burghers of Chingford wouldn't have been happy about losing direct trains to the City, either. In the end they couldn't even provide the proposed cross-platform interchange at Wood Street they originally planned.

One thing I've wondered about is why they didn't use the Gospel Oak-Barking tracks to save money, given Beeching had just proposed it for closure and the two run very near each other from Harringay Green Lanes to Walthamstow Queen's Road/Central.
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Old October 12th, 2008, 12:59 PM   #2930
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Old October 12th, 2008, 06:56 PM   #2931
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Has Wood Lane station opened? This video suggests it has:

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Old October 12th, 2008, 09:14 PM   #2932
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Opened today I think?
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Old October 12th, 2008, 09:20 PM   #2933
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U Thant View Post
The Victoria Line was built on a very small budget and taking over a perfectly good rail service wouldn't have been a great use of that money. I bet the good burghers of Chingford wouldn't have been happy about losing direct trains to the City, either. In the end they couldn't even provide the proposed cross-platform interchange at Wood Street they originally planned.

One thing I've wondered about is why they didn't use the Gospel Oak-Barking tracks to save money, given Beeching had just proposed it for closure and the two run very near each other from Harringay Green Lanes to Walthamstow Queen's Road/Central.
I'm sure that despite potential passenger closure, GOBLIN would certainly have been retained for freight traffic being a useful inter-regional link, so trying to run ATO Tube trains in amongst freight trains would have been an impossibility.
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Old October 12th, 2008, 09:40 PM   #2934
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Quote:
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Opened today I think?
Yep! See my new thread.
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Old October 14th, 2008, 10:07 AM   #2935
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acemcbuller View Post
TFL have said bendies suffer only marginally higher fare evasion than other buses. What appears to be large number of non-payers are ususally people whose season ticket give unlimited inclusive bus travel, so there is no point in them touching in.

See page 3 of the Should Boris Johnson renew the Bendy Bus contracts? thread for more discussion.
Given people are not touching/validating their oyster card, then the results will be incorrect
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Old October 14th, 2008, 03:26 PM   #2936
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They measure fare evasion by stopping the bus and turfing everyone out, seeing who has tickets and/or has touched in, and fining those that haven't. I'd expect the statistics gathered to be very accurate.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 10:14 AM   #2937
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Quote:
Originally Posted by U Thant View Post
They measure fare evasion by stopping the bus and turfing everyone out, seeing who has tickets and/or has touched in, and fining those that haven't. I'd expect the statistics gathered to be very accurate.
One the very seldom occasions I've seen any revenue inspectors on a 'Bendy' (and I can count them on the fingers of one hand), about half the bus had disembarked by the back doors by the time the inspectors reached the back of the bus and the remainder were most certainly not turfed off for a roadside pass inspection.

The number of times at Mount Pleasant that I see people letting a #19 go in order to get on a bendy #38 (when they both follow the same route into Central London) suggests that a very large proportion of bendy passengers don't pay.
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Old October 16th, 2008, 10:24 AM   #2938
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thank you for the clarification, i dont use busses at all unless the tubes are unavailable, but the few times i got on the bendy bus, it was very evident that people use the back doors to enter and exit and get a free ride. I did not know how to respond to U Thant's claim that the tfl's study shows the bus fare evasion is not as bad or whatnot, but i know from the obvious that bendy busses is a huge source of free ride. All those plastic police, sorry community poilce could help tfl with the revenue busting by riding the busses regularly.
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Old October 17th, 2008, 10:24 AM   #2939
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If I don't answer for 2 weeks I'm not being rude, I'm in India!
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Old October 30th, 2008, 10:26 AM   #2940
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If I don't answer for 2 weeks I'm not being rude, I'm in India!
Hello, I'm back... Normal service resumed
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