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Old November 22nd, 2008, 05:07 PM   #3061
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Pedant Alert... Not all, West Harrow westbound doesn't! Bet there are a couple of others about like that too
I stand corrected! I'm surprised... Must be a nightmare for Oyster users, because if you don't 'resolve' a journey by touching out, you won't be able to get through a gate next time.
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 07:40 PM   #3062
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Yes, forgetting is easily done especially when it is quiet so there isn't a queue waiting to use the validators. When did they start not letting people through if they have an unresolved journey? They used to just charge you and keep the money
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 08:12 PM   #3063
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On the issue of 24 hour trains. there is apparently one that runs from victoria to croydon through the night, are there anymore tubeman?
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 09:09 PM   #3064
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Thameslink trains run all night, hourly Bedford-Three Bridges, possibly not on a Saturday night. They might not be at the moment because of all the engineering works though
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 01:19 PM   #3065
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Yes, forgetting is easily done especially when it is quiet so there isn't a queue waiting to use the validators. When did they start not letting people through if they have an unresolved journey? They used to just charge you and keep the money
I'm pretty sure if the last journey was unresolved the UTS gates won't open next time, and a member of staff needs to 'resolve' the journey for you. Might be wrong though, not a stations bod
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 01:20 PM   #3066
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On the issue of 24 hour trains. there is apparently one that runs from victoria to croydon through the night, are there anymore tubeman?
Aside from the two mentioned, I don't know... There are a couple of sleeper services left, so obviously those sort of count. All-night services used to be much more common.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 08:18 PM   #3067
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Great sped up video of a cab view of the Piccadilly line between Arnos Grove and Acton Town:

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Old November 26th, 2008, 01:18 AM   #3068
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Love it! If only it were really that fast
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Old November 27th, 2008, 12:28 PM   #3069
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Does anyone have any links for cab views at normal speeds? There are a few on youtube but frustratingly few, and mostly they are the sped up ones which are just a blur.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 07:03 PM   #3070
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tubeman, if thameslink runs 24/7 then is it theoritically possible that the sub-surface lines can too?
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Old November 27th, 2008, 07:16 PM   #3071
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Does anyone have any links for cab views at normal speeds? There are a few on youtube but frustratingly few, and mostly they are the sped up ones which are just a blur.
You may have heard of this, but piccdriver has quite a few of the Piccadilly line.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 09:49 PM   #3072
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tubeman, if thameslink runs 24/7 then is it theoritically possible that the sub-surface lines can too?
I guess so... NR seem to have a different approach to maintenance than LU do, they'll trade 24 hour running for complete weekend shut-downs every now and then whereas LU seems to prefer providing a service 364 days a year with a nightly engineering shut-down. In general our assets are in a worse state than NR, but maybe when the entire SSR has been resignalled and the track replaced the maintenance frequency can be reduced?

One difference in general between NR tunnels and LU ones is that on NR there are 'refuges' in the tunnel wall for workers to retire to when a train approaches: it is perfectly normal to see workers anywhere, anytime on NR routes even in tunnels carrying out the sort of light maintenance and inspections LU do at night.

LU tunnel sections are known as 'line clear', which basically prohibits any form of unprotected track access during traffic hours (the alternative is 'line safe' which refers to most overground sections, here work can be carried out by day). The difference between NR and LU tunnels is mostly due to the higher train frequencies and 2 current rails rendering work in any LU tunnel very hazardous, even with refuges (which are built into many sections of SSR). Plus you're never very far from a live current rail, so walking around with tools with the 'juice' on is inadvisable... At least where there are tunnels with 3rd rail on NR you can safely walk along the '4 foot' (the space between the running rails) and step over to a refuge if a train approaches, as there is no middle 'negative' rail like on LU.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 10:16 PM   #3073
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I noticed you said 364 days a year above. Is the whole Tube shut down on Xmas day?
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Old November 27th, 2008, 11:53 PM   #3074
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I noticed you said 364 days a year above. Is the whole Tube shut down on Xmas day?
Yes. We used to run Xmas day, but not anymore. Graffiti artistes' heaven!
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Old November 28th, 2008, 12:34 AM   #3075
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why is fourth rail needed on the sub surface lines?? is it just for standardisation or are there actual benefits?
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Old November 28th, 2008, 01:21 AM   #3076
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why is fourth rail needed on the sub surface lines?? is it just for standardisation or are there actual benefits?
Standardisation with the rest of the network for stock transfers and engineer's trains. A third rail alone poses issues I don't fully understand for Tube lines, something to do with corrosion or losing current due to leaking into the tunnel structure... I know the Central London Railway originally had a single third rail though.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 01:06 PM   #3077
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Yes. We used to run Xmas day, but not anymore. Graffiti artistes' heaven!
Planned downtime is rather valuable, any reason it isn't put to use for maintenance not possible in the night hours yet not requiring an extensive closure? Other than the obvious "people don't want to work on Christmas Day" which is in my experience definitely not a given.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 03:43 PM   #3078
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Standardisation with the rest of the network for stock transfers and engineer's trains. A third rail alone poses issues I don't fully understand for Tube lines, something to do with corrosion or losing current due to leaking into the tunnel structure... I know the Central London Railway originally had a single third rail though.
isn't it to do with electrolosis and the water table?? thats why a lot of old lines weren't built because water companys objected, and the water table was used more heavily in the pre war (by factories) than it is now. I don't know anything about science unfortunately but thats the reason i heard for fourth rail. so that the current doesn't use the tunnel lining.
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Old November 28th, 2008, 07:49 PM   #3079
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Planned downtime is rather valuable, any reason it isn't put to use for maintenance not possible in the night hours yet not requiring an extensive closure? Other than the obvious "people don't want to work on Christmas Day" which is in my experience definitely not a given.
People want to be paid a lot to work Christmas day, basically!
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Old November 28th, 2008, 09:08 PM   #3080
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Standardisation with the rest of the network for stock transfers and engineer's trains. A third rail alone poses issues I don't fully understand for Tube lines, something to do with corrosion or losing current due to leaking into the tunnel structure... I know the Central London Railway originally had a single third rail though.
The reason is on a 3rd rail system the return conductor(s) are the rails which are connected to earth. Most of the London tube tunnels are metalic, so if you were to run the return current through the rails which are connected to the tunnel sections you end up with massive corrosion. (like a big battery)

So the solution is a 4th rail which is fully insulated from the running rails and hence the walls, so no corrosion issue.

As for Christmas, as a new arrival to the UK (almost 2 years) I still find it amazing that the whole public transport system in London (buses included) shuts down on Christmas day. No doubt many don't want to work, but my experiance is there will be just as many who (with appropriate pay) will work. Afterall how many in London now days are christians and celebrate Christmas as it is intended. London is the only major city I have lived in that closes down like this. Also I beleive some lines remain closed for a few days after too, same too with mainline trains. Appaling actually and a shows further why this country is so messed up and behind the rest of the world.
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