daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old December 22nd, 2008, 08:27 PM   #3161
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3271

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
why is that platform like that, and why have i never noticed...

Can't answer the second question, but I suspect the first is because the formerly 4-car GN&CR platform was extended to accommodate 8-car Victoria Line trains, so the platform area had to be extended out to the approaching incline. This is also visible at some of the Central Line platforms where platform lengthening took up part of the 'hump' profile inclines approaching and departing the platforms (there are to assist acceleration / deceleration). I don't know if the 'hump' at Finsbury Park is for the same purpose though, as it was a terminus, maybe the GN&CR line was intended to continue northwards?
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old December 22nd, 2008, 08:46 PM   #3162
Jang0
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 131
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
This is also visible at some of the Central Line platforms where platform lengthening took up part of the 'hump' profile inclines approaching and departing the platforms (there are to assist acceleration / deceleration).
Is this still done these days? If not, do you know why not? Presumably the energy savings are still worthwhile?
Jang0 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 12:31 AM   #3163
iampuking
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,414
Likes (Received): 43

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweek View Post
Really? I just used to commute through it every day and lived in the area... it was always a pretty grimmy station but it looks especially bad on that picture.
It may be being "refurbished".
iampuking no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 01:07 AM   #3164
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3271

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jang0 View Post
Is this still done these days? If not, do you know why not? Presumably the energy savings are still worthwhile?
Yes, certainly humps were used on the JLE, but not as pronounced as they appear to be on the Central Line. I can't say I've noticed them on the original 'Yerkes' Tubes or the former City & South London (Northern Bank Branch). They certainly make sense from an energy efficiency point of view.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 12:37 PM   #3165
pricemazda
Titter ye not.
 
pricemazda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: EU
Posts: 17,642
Likes (Received): 1384

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisH View Post
When the Jubilee line extension opened, what works were done at London Bridge? The Northern line concourse seems to have been widened, because one platform has very narrow entrances and the other is much wider. Cheers.
This is the same at Angel... Tubey am I right in thinking its because those stations had a single platform originally like at Clapham?
__________________
In Brussels no one hears you scream
pricemazda no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 02:39 PM   #3166
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3271

Quote:
Originally Posted by pricemazda View Post
This is the same at Angel... Tubey am I right in thinking its because those stations had a single platform originally like at Clapham?
Yes. Euston Southbound (Bank Branch) is another clear example.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 04:50 PM   #3167
Pippi444
Registered User
 
Pippi444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 4
Likes (Received): 0

1. I`ve been told that the tube trains never sound their horns in the tunnels? and what do they sound like?


2. what is causing those power dropouts on some of the tube trains? power rail gaps?
Pippi444 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 05:02 PM   #3168
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

is it easier to build a new station underground, than expand it (ie lengthen the platforms)??

also the northern was shut for 2 years in the 20s to expand the tunnels, could they do this again to expand the tunnels of the tubelines in the future? would this be a massive engineering job?

cheers tubes
bigbossman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 07:29 PM   #3169
hoosier
Registered User
 
hoosier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 2,450
Likes (Received): 62

Tubeman,

What are your top five most important rail expansion/improvement projects for the UK?
__________________
R.I.P. Moke- my best bud
hoosier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 10:51 PM   #3170
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3271

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pippi444 View Post
1. I`ve been told that the tube trains never sound their horns in the tunnels? and what do they sound like?


2. what is causing those power dropouts on some of the tube trains? power rail gaps?
1) They can do, nothing stopping them... Just not much point. Try standing on the edge of the platform as a train approaches, you'll hear it then! (No I don't really condone this!!!)

LU train whistles are generally very high shrill affairs, compared to mainline horns which are... well... horns and much easier on the ear. Some LU stocks have just one whistle tone, but I think the newer ones have a two-tone whistle, one for generally attracting attention (lower, quieter) and one for warning (very loud, shrill, high). The whistle is generally only used above ground to warn track workers of the train's approach, or to ward off trespassers. As I alluded to, the only time you'll likely hear it in tunnel sections is if some idiot is standing on the platform edge as a train approaches. It's also used to summon station staff assistance (e.g. if there's a passenger alarm).

2) Possibly. Each line is split into several Traction current 'sections' normally 3-5 stations long, and to ensure that if a section was switched off for an emergency (e.g. fire, 'one under') a train couldn't accidentally bridge the gap and liven it up, there is a car-length gap in the current rails between each current section. These tend to be adjacent to stations, and so are not noticeable if, for example at Victoria District Line, you're travelling eastbound as the 'Rail gap' is west of the station (because the train is braking, not drawing power). When you depart westbound it is noticeable, because the train is motoring and then encounters a gap in the current rails within a few metres of the platform.

However the driver tackles the 'Rail gap' departing a platform there is a noticeable loss of power accompanied by a 'pop' (this is the noise of the 'linebreakers' being slammed open by air pressure... as this is tantamount to opening a 630V switch, it needs to take place with force to prevent an arc being drawn and the linebreakers welding shut). Drivers are supposed to depart platforms with a rail gap in advance in 'Series' (half motors) to lessen the jolt, but some just habitually wind straight up to 'Parallel' (full motors) straight away which makes the jolt worse (and isn't very good for the Traction motors).

If it's Rail gaps you're noticing, they'll always be at the same location.

The other likely cause is loss of 'Pilot light' (Doors closed visual) as the train pulls away from a platform. To prevent trains from buggering off from a station with open doors, the doors have to be proved closed to allow the motors to work. This is achieved by a continuous circuit passing through every set of doors on the train, which when proved gives a blue light in the driver's cab (hence the term 'Pilot light', like a gas boiler). Sometimes, when a train is really busy, passengers pushing against doors or with a coat trapped in the doors will initially allow the doors to close enough to achieve a Pilot light, but as the train pulls away the additional momentum opens the doors a fraction more and the Pilot light goes out. This immediately cuts power to the motors and feels exactly like passing over a Rail gap: the linebreakers will slam open with a pop and the train feels like it lurches. In this eventuality you'll probably hear a PA from the driver asking people to stand away from the doors, and it can happen anywhere (unlike rail gaps).

Some stocks are more prone to this: 67 (Victoria), C (Circle, H&C, District), 72 (Bakerloo) and 73 (Piccadilly) are all of a similar vintage with similar door designs and are much more prone than the newer stocks on the Central, Northern and Jubilee Lines.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 11:00 PM   #3171
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3271

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
is it easier to build a new station underground, than expand it (ie lengthen the platforms)??

also the northern was shut for 2 years in the 20s to expand the tunnels, could they do this again to expand the tunnels of the tubelines in the future? would this be a massive engineering job?

cheers tubes
I'm guessing a platform lengthening is far easier, simply because of access. Tube platforms have been built alongside existing tunnels in the past: Holborn on the Central Line is an example (I'm struggling to think of any more), I guess it's hugely expensive and an engineering nightmare.

Reagrding the C&SLR widening 1924-1926 yes of course it's possible today, but I don't know if there will ever be a legitimate cost-benefit to closing a Tube line for several years for the sake of more headroom and an emergency walkway. It would probably be less drama building a brand new line!
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 23rd, 2008, 11:11 PM   #3172
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3271

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoosier View Post
Tubeman,

What are your top five most important rail expansion/improvement projects for the UK?
Hmmm... Tricky one

Assuming Crossrail and 'Thameslink 2000' are finally going ahead...

- GWR main line electrification (beyond Heathrow)

- Midland main line electrification / upgrade (beyond Bedford)

- Quadrupling North London Line through Camden to allow segregated access between HS1 and the WCML (i.e. international trains to Birmingham and Liverpool / Manchester)

- Chord at St Pancras to allow access from HS1 to the Midland main line (i.e. International trains to Leicester, Sheffield & Leeds)

- Manchester Metrolink expansion
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 24th, 2008, 12:19 AM   #3173
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
I'm guessing a platform lengthening is far easier, simply because of access. Tube platforms have been built alongside existing tunnels in the past: Holborn on the Central Line is an example (I'm struggling to think of any more), I guess it's hugely expensive and an engineering nightmare.

Reagrding the C&SLR widening 1924-1926 yes of course it's possible today, but I don't know if there will ever be a legitimate cost-benefit to closing a Tube line for several years for the sake of more headroom and an emergency walkway. It would probably be less drama building a brand new line!
i read somewhere that we are taller on average than we were when tubelines were built, if that is true then surely tube tunnels will be redundant within 50 years...?
bigbossman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 24th, 2008, 12:42 AM   #3174
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3271

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
i read somewhere that we are taller on average than we were when tubelines were built, if that is true then surely tube tunnels will be redundant within 50 years...?
We are on average taller than we were 100 years ago due to better nutrition, but that was I guess more a case of people not reaching their genetic potential height due to diet, now pretty much everyone should reach their potential height.

Therefore, I don't think people are getting much 'taller' anymore, so I can't see 7 foot giamts trying to cram into Tube trains in 50 years time.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 24th, 2008, 02:42 AM   #3175
iampuking
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,414
Likes (Received): 43

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
The station was originally like Bank (Northern line), they built a new southbound platform and the old southbound platform was re-used as a central hall.
I'd also like to add: The reason the passages from the central hall to the northbound platform are narrower is because they were the original cross passages between the two platforms. Obviously when the new southbound platform was built they made the new passages significantly wider.

Speaking of expanding stations... Tubeman, what stations do you think would warrant having a "London Bridge". I think Oxford Circus (Central line) and Bank (Northern line) should be too candidates. Bond Street (Jubilee line) could do with having it's central hall lengthened.

Also, do you know anything about the new ticket hall at Kings Cross? Do you know if there will be individual banks of escalators to all lines, or if there will be one bank with corridors to the individual lines from there... Do you know if there will be a one-way system introduced, i.e. people entering use the old 'tube' ticket hall and people exiting using the new one?

Thanks for any responses!
iampuking no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 26th, 2008, 12:38 PM   #3176
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3271

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Speaking of expanding stations... Tubeman, what stations do you think would warrant having a "London Bridge". I think Oxford Circus (Central line) and Bank (Northern line) should be too candidates. Bond Street (Jubilee line) could do with having it's central hall lengthened.
Agreed on all three. Add Tottenham Court Road and Leicester Square too, both very congested.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Also, do you know anything about the new ticket hall at Kings Cross? Do you know if there will be individual banks of escalators to all lines, or if there will be one bank with corridors to the individual lines from there... Do you know if there will be a one-way system introduced, i.e. people entering use the old 'tube' ticket hall and people exiting using the new one?

Thanks for any responses!
I honestly don't know, sorry mate
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 26th, 2008, 10:19 PM   #3177
iampuking
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,414
Likes (Received): 43

Don't worry about it. Hopefully we'll find out soon!
iampuking no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2008, 01:57 AM   #3178
Acemcbuller
Lifelong Londoner
 
Acemcbuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: London
Posts: 204
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Also, do you know anything about the new ticket hall at Kings Cross? Do you know if there will be individual banks of escalators to all lines, or if there will be one bank with corridors to the individual lines from there... Do you know if there will be a one-way system introduced, i.e. people entering use the old 'tube' ticket hall and people exiting using the new one?
See http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj...tion/5553.aspx and plus, on the Publications pages, the last pages of "Six-monthly update (Nov 06 - Apr 07)"
Looks like one bank of escalatiors/lifts then a split between the sub-surface lines and the deep lines.
Acemcbuller no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2008, 03:25 AM   #3179
bigbossman
Registered User
 
bigbossman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: South East London
Posts: 3,408
Likes (Received): 4

tubeman, do you know if it is possible to extend the W & C from bank, i'm not saying it should, but is it actually possible, say to liverpool street?
bigbossman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old December 27th, 2008, 05:00 AM   #3180
iampuking
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,414
Likes (Received): 43

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acemcbuller View Post
See http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj...tion/5553.aspx and plus, on the Publications pages, the last pages of "Six-monthly update (Nov 06 - Apr 07)"
Looks like one bank of escalatiors/lifts then a split between the sub-surface lines and the deep lines.
Thanks for the links.

I think you've misunderstood it. It looks like one bank of four escalators to an immediate concourse, which splits to form a combined passageway to the Piccadilly/Victoria lines and a passageway to the Northern lines which requires another escalator and a flight of stairs down to platform level.

I never realised so much tunnelling work was required...
iampuking no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
london, railways, tube

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium