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Old February 2nd, 2009, 10:30 PM   #3401
Tubeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherguevara View Post
Thanks. Living in Hackney and working in Shoreditch it wasn't such a problem for me, but my office was near dead this morning. Do you know how far TfL are expecting things to be back to normal tomorrow?
It should be far better, might even be a normal day pretty much... There's no snow forecast tomorrow and fresh snow would be the main problem. main roads should be gritted and they'll run sleet trains overnight tonight to clear the DC powered lines on the Tube and Southern region.
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Old February 2nd, 2009, 10:44 PM   #3402
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it's very strange because if you compare the shenfield metro east of Ilford and the district line east of barking. The shenfield metro is a lot busier based on entries and exits and that's even based upon national rail undercounting. I don't know how say harold wood can be double the busyness of hornchurch?? especially as harold wood has half the trains off peak!
Without wanting to sound like a snob everything between Barking and Upminster is a huge council estate... The Becontree estate and Dagenham are simply not areas where your average commuters want to live. The nice suburbs of Romford like Harold Wood and Gidea Park are much more desirable and I guess have a lot more commuters living in their catchment areas.

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Is it just a case that the fact that the district east bound isn't busy is negligible?? because i would've though taking it to romford while not being comepletely easy would've been a target?
The District Line is simply a quadrupling of the LTSR route and the slow tracks being handed over to LT after having run over then for a few decades... I guess Romford was already served by both the GER and LTSR so there was no impetus for the District Line to reach there too.

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Originally Posted by bigbossman View Post
Are they the only 'hard' egineering parts? because that surely isn't much at all??
The Ealing Broadway bit especially would be a nightmare, I guess would need a section of bored tunnel to prevent shutting down the town centre for a couple of years. I guess the viaduct and Iron Bridge would be easy enough to duplicate, but I doubt that whacking up a modern concrete viaduct alongside the original Brunel Brent viaduct would be very popular, and the fact that the Iron Bridge spans a busy road junction would also be a little tricky.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 12:28 AM   #3403
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Originally Posted by Rational Plan View Post
A better solution would be a new internal transit system between the terminals and the central tube and train station. You could then also close the piccadilly line to T4 and keep all the trains to the two busiest stops and the quickest journey. A new shuttle line connecting T6 to central and then to T4 would could be quick and simple.
That is what I was saying!
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 06:59 AM   #3404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Without wanting to sound like a snob everything between Barking and Upminster is a huge council estate... The Becontree estate and Dagenham are simply not areas where your average commuters want to live. The nice suburbs of Romford like Harold Wood and Gidea Park are much more desirable and I guess have a lot more commuters living in their catchment areas.
I don't buy that really tubeman, Harold wood is essentially the station for the harold hill estate another LCC behemoth, not really much else in the area except that. And that does OK for numbers.

And not to be a pedant but i have friends who live in hornchurch and upney (really barking) areas and they are generic suburban areas, dominated by 1930s semi's (in the case of hornchurch very upmarket) and the part of dagenham my mate lives in doesn't fit your stereotype either. The becontree estate is dagenham, but dagenham is not the becontree estate!

Personally i think its down to what i said earlier the fact that there is no destination near the end of the line. I mean the hayes branch is surely the same, even with 'metrp' frequencies and branding i don't reckon that it would be that much busier than it is now, south of beckenham if not catford. That's why the southern suburban lines feel successful to me, because they mainly head for croydon and or sutton...
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 12:19 PM   #3405
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erm, have you been on the hayes trains in rush hour? They are chok-full of people.

In fact, as a South-east Londoner, let me assure you that if I'm going anywhere other than to work / central London then I drive. To push people out of their cars and reduce congestion in the long term (not the short term, which is what the Congestion Charge does), then you need better frequencies and better interchanges. So, I think there's plenty of spare capacity which could be utilised in South London.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 12:32 PM   #3406
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actually, it's possible I might have misunderstood your main point.

Are you saying that south of the centres (Catford / Beckenham) that the trains are usually emptier? If so, then I think you are correct.

Remember Boris was talking about his fanciful M25 of railways after his election campaign. Well, I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that to push people out of their cars in Greater London, that might be what we actually need (leave aside the practicalities of actually building it for now!). In North London, it must be a nightmare to try to travel from Stanmore to Edgware, or Cockfosters to Woodford, or Dagenham to Romford. Similarly in the South, you cannot travel between Lewisham and Bromley on a direct train, nor Catford and Forest Hill, nor Forest Hill and Dulwich.

In the South, the railways do cross over each other a bit which in theory should help. But the reality is that often interchanges are poor, and frequencies are so bad that it really is quicker driving - even through poor South London streets.

We need a mix of semi-surburban fast trains from Outer London and beyond with metro-style Greater London trains. We need better interchanges though, not outdated stations from 19C when railway companies were fighting for supremacy.

For now, I'll keep using my car.
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Old February 3rd, 2009, 01:55 PM   #3407
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yeah you mis understood my point.

Southerns metro newtork is generally very good in tems of criss crossing and coverage. South easterns is pitiful, and the two networks don't even interchange with each other./ It's a joke.

I did say earlier in this thread, that i would divert the northern to stanmore and the jubilee from canon park to edgware and also build the northern heights to edgware.

I also said that should divert the northern high barnet branch into new barnet, and extend the piccadilly from cockfosters to new barnet.

i think it is worse in kent, in canterbury, it would be relatively easy to close west which clogs up the city with it's two level crossings, and build one station, but no, so getting from north kent to south is near impossible without 15 changes!
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Old February 4th, 2009, 04:56 PM   #3408
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Apologies if these seem like newbie questions:

- What are the least patronised sections of the Tube network, as well as the least frequently serviced? I already know about Hainaut-Woodford; I assume Epping-Ongar would have counted until 1994!

- If any, what sections do London Underground services interface with any other rail operations on?
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Old February 4th, 2009, 05:37 PM   #3409
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you might find some answers to your questions in the first post of this thread!
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Old February 4th, 2009, 05:37 PM   #3410
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Originally Posted by L2 View Post
the least frequently serviced?
Chesham never gets better than 30 minutes between trains. At peak time Amersham and Chesham have a train every 34 minutes, and its planned that Chesham gets through trains and Amersham's frequency also becomes, at best, every 30 minutes. Bear in mind that Amersham gets ~1tph Chiltern in the peaks, and 2tph off-peak.

Woodford-Hainualt is 3tph (off-peak at least). Roding Valley is the quietest station. IIRC the Olympia service has recently been changed from 4tph to 3tph, relieving Earl's Court and meaning only one train is needed for the service.

I would say that either the Chesham branch, or a section of Woodford-Hainualt is the quietest section.
Quote:
- If any, what sections do London Underground services interface with any other rail operations on?
from just north of Harrow (at the junction where the Uxbridge branch leaves) to Amersham, the fast Metropolitan line (up to Moor Park, then just the Met) shares tracks with Chiltern's trains to Aylesbury.

from Gunnersbury to Richmond, the District line shares with Overground trains
from East Putney to Wimbledon, the District line sometimes shares with South West Trains trains.

not another rail operation, but from Acton Town to north of Ealing Common, District and Piccadilly lines share tracks, and the Sub-surface lines (Met, H&C, Circle, District) share tracks where they run on the same route.
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Old February 4th, 2009, 07:36 PM   #3411
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Just for fun; how many Zone 1 Tube stations can you name?

http://www.sporcle.com/games/londontubecentral.php
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Old February 4th, 2009, 09:24 PM   #3412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Chesham never gets better than 30 minutes between trains. At peak time Amersham and Chesham have a train every 34 minutes, and its planned that Chesham gets through trains and Amersham's frequency also becomes, at best, every 30 minutes. Bear in mind that Amersham gets ~1tph Chiltern in the peaks, and 2tph off-peak.

Woodford-Hainualt is 3tph (off-peak at least). Roding Valley is the quietest station. IIRC the Olympia service has recently been changed from 4tph to 3tph, relieving Earl's Court and meaning only one train is needed for the service.

I would say that either the Chesham branch, or a section of Woodford-Hainualt is the quietest section.from just north of Harrow (at the junction where the Uxbridge branch leaves) to Amersham, the fast Metropolitan line (up to Moor Park, then just the Met) shares tracks with Chiltern's trains to Aylesbury.

from Gunnersbury to Richmond, the District line shares with Overground trains
from East Putney to Wimbledon, the District line sometimes shares with South West Trains trains.

not another rail operation, but from Acton Town to north of Ealing Common, District and Piccadilly lines share tracks, and the Sub-surface lines (Met, H&C, Circle, District) share tracks where they run on the same route.
You've answered L2 pretty categorically, the only real omission is Bakerloo running over the DC lines Queen's Park to Harrow & Wealdstone
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Old February 4th, 2009, 09:25 PM   #3413
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Originally Posted by RobH View Post
Just for fun; how many Zone 1 Tube stations can you name?

http://www.sporcle.com/games/londontubecentral.php
Not wanting to sound arrogant, but I'd get them all so have better things to do with 10 minutes
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Old February 5th, 2009, 01:46 PM   #3414
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It's 4 trains per hour on the Met, 2 on the Chiltern lines, so 6 trains per hour total for Amersham. It's just Chesham that's only 2 trains per hour.

Kensington Olympia is three to four times an hour, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kensing...on_Underground

Hainault - Woodford is still quite frequent. Bakerloo above Harrow isn't. All the rest is 6 trains per hour at least, I suppose!
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Old February 5th, 2009, 05:28 PM   #3415
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It's 4 trains per hour on the Met, 2 on the Chiltern lines, so 6 trains per hour total for Amersham. It's just Chesham that's only 2 trains per hour.
except in peaks, where there's one Chiltern train (a couple non-stop) and 2 Mets (the other two go to Chesham, without the shuttle).

But it's worse, as there's a 68 minute timetable, not a 60 minute, so it's under 2tph.
Quote:
Hainault - Woodford is still quite frequent.
It's 3tph off peak
Quote:
Bakerloo above Harrow isn't.
Yes, it's 0tph. The Bakerloo isn't very frequent north of Queens Park, but it's more than 4.

Piccadilly to Uxbridge is 3tph off-peak. The West London Line and the Watford DC lines on Overground are 2tph and 3tph respectively.
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Old February 5th, 2009, 06:28 PM   #3416
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Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
except in peaks, where there's one Chiltern train (a couple non-stop) and 2 Mets (the other two go to Chesham, without the shuttle).

Piccadilly to Uxbridge is 3tph off-peak. The West London Line and the Watford DC lines on Overground are 2tph and 3tph respectively.
I wouldn't count the Piccadilly to Uxbridge as there are still 6 trains up to Rayner's Lane and the Met from there on. So with an extra change you can still get to say Hammersmith 6 times per hour.

There's 2 chiltern trains per hour plus 2 mets then in the peak. Although the timetable is weird, I'll admit. Anyway, this pretty much meets the number of people on those lines so I wouldn't complain too much.
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Old February 6th, 2009, 01:13 PM   #3417
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My question is: what point of the underground network has the most trains per hour? I don't mean which station, but rather which part of which line.
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Old February 6th, 2009, 03:31 PM   #3418
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My question is: what point of the underground network has the most trains per hour? I don't mean which station, but rather which part of which line.
Victoria Line between Brixton and Seven Sisters, 28 trains per hour I believe.
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Old February 6th, 2009, 07:24 PM   #3419
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Victoria Line between Brixton and Seven Sisters, 28 trains per hour I believe.
Central line is higher, so is the Kennington - Morden section of the Northern.

However it seems like it's higher on the Victoria line, I don't know why.
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Old February 6th, 2009, 08:16 PM   #3420
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aren't the Baker Street-Liverpool Street and South Kensington-Tower Hill sections of the SSLs timetabled to run something like 32tph in the peaks (4 trains every 7.5 minutes). It may be only 30tph (4 trains every 8 minutes), but I'm fairly sure it's the former. Aldgate East-Barking, as part of the upgrades was going to be similar, and during the peaks, I think Aldgate East-Whitechapel might get such an amount now.
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