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Old February 6th, 2009, 10:11 PM   #3421
iampuking
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I heard the SSLs were only 28tph...

Like the Victoria line, they seem much higher.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 12:09 PM   #3422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iampuking View Post
Central line is higher, so is the Kennington - Morden section of the Northern.

However it seems like it's higher on the Victoria line, I don't know why.
I'm just checking http://www.geocities.com/athens/acro...s.html#Central
It seems like the Central line is only higher westbound in the morning peak at 30 trains per hour. The Victoria seems to have a higher frequency at pretty much any other time.

Northern Line, according to that page, never gets over trains every 2m30 on the Kennington - Morden stretch.

It feels to me that the Victoria and Central are much better at coping with these high frequencies than the SSLs anyway.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 12:48 PM   #3423
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I'm just checking [url]It feels to me that the Victoria and Central are much better at coping with these high frequencies than the SSLs anyway.
They are thanks to ATO... SSR are more stop-start due to conventional signalling which isn't as dense as it used to be (i.e. a lot of the 'extra' signals were ripped out in the 1970's).
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Old February 7th, 2009, 06:33 PM   #3424
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'Transforming the Tube'

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/corporate/proj...mes/10146.aspx

That site makes it look like the nwtwork will be up to standard by 2016 or so.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 06:57 PM   #3425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajw373 View Post
That is what I was saying!
oops, think I quoted the post. I meant the one you were quoting.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 07:23 PM   #3426
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actually, it's possible I might have misunderstood your main point.

Are you saying that south of the centres (Catford / Beckenham) that the trains are usually emptier? If so, then I think you are correct.

Remember Boris was talking about his fanciful M25 of railways after his election campaign. Well, I'm coming more and more to the conclusion that to push people out of their cars in Greater London, that might be what we actually need (leave aside the practicalities of actually building it for now!). In North London, it must be a nightmare to try to travel from Stanmore to Edgware, or Cockfosters to Woodford, or Dagenham to Romford. Similarly in the South, you cannot travel between Lewisham and Bromley on a direct train, nor Catford and Forest Hill, nor Forest Hill and Dulwich.

In the South, the railways do cross over each other a bit which in theory should help. But the reality is that often interchanges are poor, and frequencies are so bad that it really is quicker driving - even through poor South London streets.

We need a mix of semi-surburban fast trains from Outer London and beyond with metro-style Greater London trains. We need better interchanges though, not outdated stations from 19C when railway companies were fighting for supremacy.

For now, I'll keep using my car.
London could certainly do with better orbital links. But whats the best way forward? I think orbital routes in the inner suburbs would be better, as they would be shorter and the densities are higher. The new Overground lines are a start, but with the exception of the bit between Forest Gate and Stratford towards Chalk Farm the frequencies are to few to be true metro.

Resignalling and electrifying the Gospel Oak line would help divert a few freight trains from the North London line route, but the West London line route already handles quite a few freight trains and unless we build a new freight route these routes will never get more trains along here.

A way to divert quite a few freight trains from South London and across the West London line would be a new Lower Thames crossing near Tilbury, which would divert Medway and Isle of grain trains plus the few from the Channel tunnel via Gospel Oak Line at first, but later a new orbital freight route around London to the East and North would catch most of the freight movements.

While this would help a lot of existing lines increase capacity, the North London line is pretty close to the city centre in some places and is really a Zone 2/3 route.

A new light metro route further out, with the North Circular to the North of a new route and probably outside of it to the West of London, would provide the most use. I liked those proposals for a West London tube that ran from Surbiton to Brent Cross via Ealing.

Last edited by Rational Plan; February 7th, 2009 at 07:36 PM.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 07:33 PM   #3427
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Regarding 6-tracking more of the GWR main line, I guess it's needed, but it would be pretty disruptive and expensive as there are engineering features like the tunnel under Ealing Broadway, River Brent viaduct and the 'Iron Bridge' between Ealing and Southall to widen.

I've always thought that the Central lines just finishes to early at Ealing Broadway. A lot of people either change here from the buses from the Uxbridge road or the are getting off trains they primarily boarded from West Drayton to Southall.

In the land of heavy investment in our transport infrastructure, either the District or Central lines would have been extended west along the Uxbridge road or the Great Western Line, or both! Now that Crossrail is coming there is not much point extending any tube line along the Great Western Line, but an extension along the Uxbridge road to at least as far as Southall would have great potential.
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Old February 7th, 2009, 10:03 PM   #3428
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rational Plan View Post
London could certainly do with better orbital links. But whats the best way forward? I think orbital routes in the inner suburbs would be better, as they would be shorter and the densities are higher. The new Overground lines are a start, but with the exception of the bit between Forest Gate and Stratford towards Chalk Farm the frequencies are to few to be true metro.

Resignalling and electrifying the Gospel Oak line would help divert a few freight trains from the North London line route, but the West London line route already handles quite a few freight trains and unless we build a new freight route these routes will never get more trains along here.

A way to divert quite a few freight trains from South London and across the West London line would be a new Lower Thames crossing near Tilbury, which would divert Medway and Isle of grain trains plus the few from the Channel tunnel via Gospel Oak Line at first, but later a new orbital freight route around London to the East and North would catch most of the freight movements.

While this would help a lot of existing lines increase capacity, the North London line is pretty close to the city centre in some places and is really a Zone 2/3 route.

A new light metro route further out, with the North Circular to the North of a new route and probably outside of it to the West of London, would provide the most use. I liked those proposals for a West London tube that ran from Surbiton to Brent Cross via Ealing.
freight can be diverted off the west london line around the chiswick and through clapham junction...
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Old February 7th, 2009, 11:39 PM   #3429
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Hi Tubeman
As you are very practical could you take a quick look at my Parrahub concept and point out any problems it may have please?
http://www.parrahub.org.au/
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Old February 8th, 2009, 01:46 AM   #3430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rational Plan View Post
I've always thought that the Central lines just finishes to early at Ealing Broadway. A lot of people either change here from the buses from the Uxbridge road or the are getting off trains they primarily boarded from West Drayton to Southall.

In the land of heavy investment in our transport infrastructure, either the District or Central lines would have been extended west along the Uxbridge road or the Great Western Line, or both! Now that Crossrail is coming there is not much point extending any tube line along the Great Western Line, but an extension along the Uxbridge road to at least as far as Southall would have great potential.
Yeah, and I think the NR Greenford service is a bit too stubby. My idea would be to extend the Central to Greenford via the NR route. Sorry, doesn't quite reach Southall, but it would clear up a platform at Paddington which could be otherwise utilised.
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Old February 8th, 2009, 10:51 AM   #3431
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Quote:
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Hi Tubeman
As you are very practical could you take a quick look at my Parrahub concept and point out any problems it may have please?
http://www.parrahub.org.au/
Oh Eddy first on the ATDB now here. Oh my will you never understand that in this modern world that your Parra hub would not meet any safety regulations and that your costings are out by at least a factor of 100, maybe even 1000.
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Old February 8th, 2009, 05:22 PM   #3432
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Great video I found of the Circle line between Embankment and South Kensington.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 01:15 AM   #3433
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So.... it is the western part of the Central Line which has the highest frequencies then? Or the Victoria Line?
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Old February 9th, 2009, 01:25 AM   #3434
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The entire central section of the Central line. Leytonstone - White City.

And the Northern line Kennington - Morden.

Don't know about the rest.
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Old February 9th, 2009, 05:28 AM   #3435
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Hi Tubeman,

do you know if the new Metropolitan line stock will have purple livery or will it be yellow like the new Circle line stock?

I imagine this question may already have been asked at some point but there are so many pages to this lovely thread that it would take days to find the answer.

Thanks
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Old February 9th, 2009, 01:25 PM   #3436
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Hi Tubeman,

do you know if the new Metropolitan line stock will have purple livery or will it be yellow like the new Circle line stock?

I imagine this question may already have been asked at some point but there are so many pages to this lovely thread that it would take days to find the answer.

Thanks
I guess you're talking about the grabrails rather than the car bodies (which will be corporate red, white & blue)?

As the S Stock will be universal to 4 different lines there can't be any line-branding livery on the grabrails (unless they go for green, purple, pink & yellow stripes!) so I guess they'll just be the most visible to the visually impaired (i.e. yellow).
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Old February 10th, 2009, 07:56 AM   #3437
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Talking about S stock, wikipedea list it as entering service (projected) in 2009, is there a train in testing yet? Seen pics of the new 09TS but nothing about s stock. Would love to see some construction pics if anyone's got any links.
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Old February 10th, 2009, 09:39 PM   #3438
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Thanks Tubeman,

Yes I was talking about the grab rails (and the seats).
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Old February 12th, 2009, 03:19 PM   #3439
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Forgive me, please, for being behind the times. But I do remember hearing 3 or 4 years ago of a plan to remove the Circle Line from the network by in 2009. Has this plan been completely dropped? I've never been a fan of the Circle Line, so wouldn't really miss it if it wasn't there.

Thanks.
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Old February 12th, 2009, 09:22 PM   #3440
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Quote:
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Forgive me, please, for being behind the times. But I do remember hearing 3 or 4 years ago of a plan to remove the Circle Line from the network by in 2009. Has this plan been completely dropped? I've never been a fan of the Circle Line, so wouldn't really miss it if it wasn't there.

Thanks.
There is a more modern plan to do pretty much the same thing.
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