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Old July 11th, 2009, 04:09 PM   #3621
sweek
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Is your Bakerloo line going ATO any time soon? It generally seems to be the line least talked about when it comes to upgrading...
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Old July 11th, 2009, 09:35 PM   #3622
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Quote:
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Is your Bakerloo line going ATO any time soon? It generally seems to be the line least talked about when it comes to upgrading...
Back of the queue

2020, allegedly
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Old July 11th, 2009, 11:00 PM   #3623
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Back of the queue

2020, allegedly
Tubeman - I just love the Bakerloo line. I spent a lot of time on it when I was visiting London shuttling back and forth from Edgeware Road tube to the west end on it. There is so much atmosphere and history in those old stations. The Victorian era booking office on the surface, the old trapezoid lifts, operated by a madman, who sang to himself constantly. The smell of burning metal from the train's carbon brushes and the rush of wind pushing against you in the passageway as a train enters the station. Waiting for the lifts. The tiling and round-bore tunnels. Oh, and the spiral stairways, wide enough to take the Victorian petticoats. That's a long hike down the stairs - did it once.

And of course, the quaint British practice of naming two stations the same - wonderful for confusing the visitor. Edgeware Road Tube Station and just down the street and around the corner, Edgeware Road Tube Station. Completely separate stations on different lines.

Love the London Underground
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Old July 12th, 2009, 11:28 AM   #3624
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Tubeman - I just love the Bakerloo line. I spent a lot of time on it when I was visiting London shuttling back and forth from Edgeware Road tube to the west end on it. There is so much atmosphere and history in those old stations. The Victorian era booking office on the surface, the old trapezoid lifts, operated by a madman, who sang to himself constantly. The smell of burning metal from the train's carbon brushes and the rush of wind pushing against you in the passageway as a train enters the station. Waiting for the lifts. The tiling and round-bore tunnels. Oh, and the spiral stairways, wide enough to take the Victorian petticoats. That's a long hike down the stairs - did it once.

And of course, the quaint British practice of naming two stations the same - wonderful for confusing the visitor. Edgeware Road Tube Station and just down the street and around the corner, Edgeware Road Tube Station. Completely separate stations on different lines.

Love the London Underground
Agreed

Fareastern cities are always going to be able to build ultra-modern, air-conditioned metros from scratch which on paper outperform metros like LU... But the atmosphere and history of networks like LU, Glasgow, NYC, Berlin, Paris etc just make them more of a pleasure to use.

The Tube is more than just a way of getting from a to b, it's an integral part of London and its history and has been for over 145 years in various forms. To sweep away this history in the name of modernisation would be as criminal as knocking down St Paul's or Westminster Abbey.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 08:01 PM   #3625
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Pride of place in the Ian Allan bookshop window in Waterloo:

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Old July 17th, 2009, 08:13 PM   #3626
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Agreed

Fareastern cities are always going to be able to build ultra-modern, air-conditioned metros from scratch which on paper outperform metros like LU... But the atmosphere and history of networks like LU, Glasgow, NYC, Berlin, Paris etc just make them more of a pleasure to use.

The Tube is more than just a way of getting from a to b, it's an integral part of London and its history and has been for over 145 years in various forms. To sweep away this history in the name of modernisation would be as criminal as knocking down St Paul's or Westminster Abbey.
There has to be a balance. People want, need and deserve an effective metro system, not a museum. Unfortunatly to become effective things need to change.
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Old July 17th, 2009, 09:39 PM   #3627
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London has a very large metro system. Unless there are going to be lots of new projects it will always be more old than new.

It costs enough just to update it all. Without that the old will just be decrepit and have to be shut down. Better to have a working (just) system perhaps modernised to a degree than none at all. Then you have to ask the question is a lot of new route that needed or justified?
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Old July 17th, 2009, 11:42 PM   #3628
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Quote:
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Pride of place in the Ian Allan bookshop window in Waterloo:

I saw your book at the London Transport Museum gift shop last week and I flipped through the pages. I must say it is a very organized and complete book, replete with information on all railway lines in and around the London Metropolitan area. I really enjoyed looking at it. I recommend it to anyone who is interested in learning about London's rail history!
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Old July 18th, 2009, 03:41 AM   #3629
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There has to be a balance. People want, need and deserve an effective metro system, not a museum. Unfortunatly to become effective things need to change.
Who said you can't have both?

And many of the "changes" for needed for improvement won't adversely affect LU's historical status. Unfortunately many of the unnecessary and pointless changes being pushed through are.
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Old July 18th, 2009, 10:56 AM   #3630
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Who said you can't have both?

And many of the "changes" for needed for improvement won't adversely affect LU's historical status. Unfortunately many of the unnecessary and pointless changes being pushed through are.
Who said I said that? Did you not see the world BALANCE?
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Old July 18th, 2009, 11:35 AM   #3631
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There has to be a balance. People want, need and deserve an effective metro system, not a museum. Unfortunatly to become effective things need to change.
You can have both though; the oldest metro line in the world will soon have trains with air con and at some point will be ATO... I don't know what else you could ask for? To me the fact they'll be running through 150 year old tunnels and historic stations is a bonus.

There are some operating issues that will never realistically go away, such as flat junctions on SSR, but aside from that there's no reason why LU cannot be as modern and efficient as any other metro.
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Old July 18th, 2009, 11:36 AM   #3632
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Originally Posted by DWNTWN View Post
I saw your book at the London Transport Museum gift shop last week and I flipped through the pages. I must say it is a very organized and complete book, replete with information on all railway lines in and around the London Metropolitan area. I really enjoyed looking at it. I recommend it to anyone who is interested in learning about London's rail history!
Thank you... Although its a shop not a library!
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Old July 20th, 2009, 02:21 AM   #3633
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Quote:
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Who said I said that? Did you not see the world BALANCE?
By saying people dont want a "museum" you were implying that Tubeman prefered a museum over an efficient metro system. AFAIK, he wasn't; he was discussing how LU's historical status should be retained because it gives LU a certain charm.
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Old July 20th, 2009, 06:00 PM   #3634
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There are some operating issues that will never realistically go away, such as flat junctions on SSR, but aside from that there's no reason why LU cannot be as modern and efficient as any other metro.
Well this gives me the idea for a question!

Could 'flying' junctions be added to the SSL and if so how. Yes I know it's expensive and would mean closure for a time, but could it be done?

And without extra tracks along most of the Circle and some of the branches would it make much difference if it was done?
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Old July 20th, 2009, 09:56 PM   #3635
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Well this gives me the idea for a question!

Could 'flying' junctions be added to the SSL and if so how. Yes I know it's expensive and would mean closure for a time, but could it be done?

And without extra tracks along most of the Circle and some of the branches would it make much difference if it was done?
Nothing's impossible, but all would be real challenges if there was any hope of carrying out the works without lengthy closures (as in months).

I had given a couple some thought before actually...

Praed Street; I spent many a long minute sat staring at signal OP38 whilst the Edgware Road signaller decided to let H&C trains limp across the junction ahead of me... My idea was to have the Outer rail / EB road burrow downwards on approach to Praed Street and after a short stretch of bored tunnel under the H&C tracks rise up again in the vicinity of the signal box by platform 1 Edgware Rd. The Outer rail would then run via platform 1, EB H&C via platform 2. Still a logistical nightmare and would result in a lengthy suspension, but at least there's a little room to play with at Edg Rd.

Earl's Court: the only thing missing to allow complete segregation of Wimbleware and the 'main' is a flyunder ex-platform 2, burrowing downwards and under the EB main ex-platform 1. Again, hugely disruptive.

Other junctions like Minories / Aldgate / Aldgate East would be so complex and disruptive they wouldn't be worth the effort really... One of the main problems is that often there are platforms just next to the junctions (e.g. Baker Street, Gloucester Road) so there isn't enough distance between the platform and the junction to allow a track to 'burrow' to avoid a conflicting move. The only option is new platforms on a lower level, which would be greatly inconvenient (e.g. two EB platforms on different levels at Baker Street).
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 05:42 AM   #3636
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First view of the new 2009 Stock in passenger service on the Victoria line!

The acceleration is so much more impressive than the acceleration on the current trains. Not sure I like the announcements though, too robotic sounding.

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Old July 22nd, 2009, 07:25 AM   #3637
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Pictures of the 2009 Stock's run at flickr.

In other news, somewhat tube related, new trains were inaugurated on the London Overground. They feature air conditioning, fully walk-through carriages and retro styling. Read here.

One thing that baffles me is how, the new S Stock designed for a high frequency metro system appears to have partially transverse seating in order to please the suburban moaners from Amersham, yet the trains for a lower frequency system are wholly longitudinal!
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 10:56 AM   #3638
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First New Victoria line 09 stock Train Enters Passenger Service




Last night, 21 July 2009, we successfully delivered the first new Victoria line 09TS into passenger service. The train entered service at 23:55, travelling between Seven Sisters Northumberland Park Depot and Brixton.



This is a significant milestone, not only for the Victoria Line Upgrade, but for the whole of our transformation programme and I would like to thank all of those involved in making this happen.



Over the summer both Trains 1 and 2 will be running more frequently during traffic hours, proving the reliability of the fleet.



We still have a long way to go to complete the upgrade. By the end of 2009 we will have begun signalling from Osborne House, our new service control centre, and Train 3, our first fleet operable train, will have been delivered to London.

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Old July 22nd, 2009, 01:43 PM   #3639
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Sounds good! I'm looking forward to trying it out some time soon.
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Old July 22nd, 2009, 08:35 PM   #3640
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The new stocks on the Victoria and Overground look awesome

Tubeman, I'm not sure if you've had this one before, but I have a suggestion for the tubes east from Mile End. Have the Central line take over towards Barking and Upminster, and in turn have the District and H&C going towards Epping / Hainult, with one of them taking the Hainult loop.

However, I guess the current Central line tunnels would not be big enough to accomodate sub-surface stock, and there'd be alot of engineering involved.

Your thoughts?
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