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Old January 3rd, 2006, 08:14 PM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme
Went past the London Underground museum last week, and noticed it closed for renovation. It was pretty good previously, so I am wondering what the plans are. Does anyone know what's in store? Are they expanding the site?
I very much doubt it will be expanding at all (due to constraints of the site), I assume perhaps some of the exhibits are being changed?

The Mezzanine level is fairly recent already, I doubt any new floorspace is being added.
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Old January 3rd, 2006, 08:19 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by samsonyuen
Tubeman, I've got another question! How many stations a year are there lifts added to? Is there a quota or is it just as the funds come in line? Is there a priority for higher traffic stations?
Its pretty haphazard; its not so much that stations are getting lifts put in per se, but they're being totally overhauled with lifts being put in as a part of the wider works. To comply with the DDA all stations will have to be step-free evenutally, but I'm not aware of any particular timescale for this to happen, it is very expensive after all. Even many of the older Yerkes stations with only lifts peversely have flights of stairs involved which renders them inaccessible anyway. I suspect that as these would be the cheapest to convert, if there was some sort of quota these would be first as they could be made step-free relatively easily. I presume Queensway (currently closed for lift replacement) will be the first example of this.
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Old January 3rd, 2006, 08:29 PM   #363
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Originally Posted by sarflonlad
Can you give us a reminder when your book is out? (cos if I pre-order now there is no guarantee I'll have the money in my Bank Account when it's dispatched :P) I loved the Subterranean Railway by Chris Wolmar - will this be on par or surpass?

Another Q about LU. What's it got (asides from the stations) in its property portfolio (if anything)?
According to Amazon its out 1/2/06, but this could just be a guess. A month seems like a very short time as I haven't seen the final proofs yet.

Re: LU property...

We own several office buildings like 55 Broadway, Pelham Street, Albany House etc. I'm not aware of much else.
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Old January 3rd, 2006, 08:35 PM   #364
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Originally Posted by nick-taylor
Another question - what is the chances of the Varsity Line (ie the line between Oxford - Cambridge via Bletchley + Bedford) being re-opened. In some places the track still runs services (eg Oxford - Bicester Town; Bletchley - Bedford), while in others the tracks are either overgrown or have been lifted. What with the Oxford-Cambridge Arc in full growth mode (encompassing the fastest growing areas of the UK), how soon could we see it re-opened?
I'd say it will eventually re-open, certainly Bedford to Oxford anyway, I'm not too sure about the last stretch from Bedford to Sandy (then on to Cambridge via the ECML).

This Page is interesting, but out of date.

A drawback is that the line would not serve Milton keynes Central but Bletchley, I certainly think MK had reached the stage where it should be looking at some sort of light rail or tram system which would improve this problem.
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Old January 7th, 2006, 07:01 PM   #365
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Bump.

The impending RMT strike stinks. What I'm not sure about is whether it will affect the tube lines like New Year's Eve, where only a few stations in Central London were closed, or whether most of the lines will be suspended?
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Old January 7th, 2006, 07:07 PM   #366
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Originally Posted by samsonyuen
Bump.

The impending RMT strike stinks. What I'm not sure about is whether it will affect the tube lines like New Year's Eve, where only a few stations in Central London were closed, or whether most of the lines will be suspended?
It will probably have the same minimal effect as the NYE strike. Drivers will not forego a day's pay to support station staff, even our local RMT Rep is advising Drivers to come in to work.

Some stations or parts of stations may close from time to time, but it will be about as disruptive as a bad signal failure (in fact, probably much less).
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Old January 8th, 2006, 05:27 PM   #367
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Oh! I normally take the bus to Canary Wharf, change at Westminster, and then onto Parson Green, all on the tube. Should I not change this for tomorrow? Otherwise, I'd have to take the DLR to Greenwich, take the mainline to Waterloo East, walk to Waterloo, and take the train to Putney, and walk.
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Old January 8th, 2006, 05:40 PM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonyuen
Oh! I normally take the bus to Canary Wharf, change at Westminster, and then onto Parson Green, all on the tube. Should I not change this for tomorrow? Otherwise, I'd have to take the DLR to Greenwich, take the mainline to Waterloo East, walk to Waterloo, and take the train to Putney, and walk.
Play it by ear. Just find out the extent of the disription before setting off tomorrow. I'd expect the network to be at worst 25% disrupted, at best there may be no appreciable effect.
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Old January 9th, 2006, 01:18 AM   #369
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Great news. I'm crossing my fingers.
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Old January 9th, 2006, 12:50 PM   #370
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"This morning, the RMT strike has had a minimal impact on London Underground services.


London Underground is running good services on 11 out of 12 lines. More than 90 per cent of our 275 stations are open this morning, with only 20 closed due to the non-availability of staff."


Kiss our arses, Bob Crowe!

Didn't I tell you?
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Old January 9th, 2006, 01:19 PM   #371
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@Tubeman: looking forward to your book, pre-ordered it.

Have there ever been any plans to split up the District line into multiple lines?

The current map tricks travellers into believing there is a single service with ordinary branches, however the Wimbledon-Edgware Road service is rather distinct. The only plan I've seen to make this a separate line is where the Wimbledon segment becomes the southern end of the proposed Chelsea-Hackney line (and the Hainault service of the Central line the northernmost segment), but that line will probably never be built as such due to all the CrossRail plans. Does the Earl's Court first-come-first-served signalling affect this situation at all?
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Old January 9th, 2006, 01:56 PM   #372
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Tubeman, what is more efficient, electrified third rail or overhead electrical pylons for transmitting power to subway trains?

And reasons why each is used?


Thanks a lot!
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Old January 9th, 2006, 08:29 PM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capzilla
@Tubeman: looking forward to your book, pre-ordered it.

Have there ever been any plans to split up the District line into multiple lines?

The current map tricks travellers into believing there is a single service with ordinary branches, however the Wimbledon-Edgware Road service is rather distinct. The only plan I've seen to make this a separate line is where the Wimbledon segment becomes the southern end of the proposed Chelsea-Hackney line (and the Hainault service of the Central line the northernmost segment), but that line will probably never be built as such due to all the CrossRail plans. Does the Earl's Court first-come-first-served signalling affect this situation at all?
The most recent map has redesigned Earl's Court so it no longer looks like it is possible to catch trains direct from Richmond or Ealing to Edgware Road, or Upminster to Olympia. It still doesn't show that the offpeak service pattern has all Ealing trains terminating at Tower Hill, so its still confusing.

My next little project is to redesign the Tube Map showing off-peak service patterns, it will look much more complex but I'll try to keep it simple.

For example, the District Line would become 5 different lines:

- Ealing Broadway to Tower Hill
- Richmond to Upminster
- Wimbledon to Upminster
- Wimbledon to Edgware Road
- Olympia to High Street Kensington

Likewise the Metropolitan and Northern Lines would become much more complex. I've had a think about the Northern Line, and technically it would become 6 different lines which is perhaps a bit OTT!

I can't really work on it at the moment though, as I'm doing a University course as well as working and dealing with the book.

Its a bit of a nonsense Wimbledon - Edgware Road being part of the District Line; it would much more logically be part of the Hammermsith & City then the District Line would be D Stocks only, and the Hammersmith & City + Wimbledon to Edgware Road C Stocks only. The only drawback is the Hammersmith & City Line drivers would need to learn Network Rail rules & regs for the East Putney to Wimbeldon section.

I think with the advent of universal S Stock Sub Surface Railways might become a bit inventive with service patterns... I think the Metropolitan is already a dead cert to run to Barking instead of the H&C (trains are longer, therefore more capacity).

Thanks for buying the book, by the way
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Old January 9th, 2006, 08:42 PM   #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redstone
Tubeman, what is more efficient, electrified third rail or overhead electrical pylons for transmitting power to subway trains?

And reasons why each is used?


Thanks a lot!
The main disadvantage of live rails comes with adverse weather (i.e. snow), but I suppose the rarity of snowfall in the SE of England means that this is not a major consideration and thus the majority of SE England Main Line railways as well as the Underground uses live rails.

Both systems have their pros and cons: Overhead wires can be brought down and the much higher current (25,000V as opposed to 600-750V) means that overhead wires are very hazardous as the current can jump up to 2m through the air (and will fry you instantly).

At track level, the live rails present more of a hazard, but the current cannot jump and you can even fall against the live rail and not get a shock provided you have dry clothing between you and the rail. You literally need to lie on the rail with bare skin or wet clothing to get a shock, and even then you could survive.

Live rails work very well for a high frequency low speed (relatively) metro, and this is why they have endured as the electrification of choice. The only real drawback is snow and ice, but this is too rare in London to be an issue.
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Old January 10th, 2006, 07:50 PM   #375
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High voltage AC is also a lot more efficient to transmit, since

P=IČR

and

V=IR

i.e. if you double the voltage over a given resistance you halve the current, and the power loss is divided by four...
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Old January 10th, 2006, 09:16 PM   #376
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Quote:
Its a bit of a nonsense Wimbledon - Edgware Road being part of the District Line; it would much more logically be part of the Hammermsith & City then the District Line would be D Stocks only, and the Hammersmith & City + Wimbledon to Edgware Road C Stocks only. The only drawback is the Hammersmith & City Line drivers would need to learn Network Rail rules & regs for the East Putney to Wimbeldon section.
I presume you mean that trains would start at wimbledon then join the H&C at Edgeware with Wimbledon retaining the the Upminster part of the District line? Is this actually likely to happen at all?

Looking at a tube map, you wonder why the Wimbledon - Edgeware District line wasn't just called the 'West London Line'.

Can we also assume we wont see the Chelney Line/Crossrail 2 in our lifetimes? What is the safeguarded route for this line exactly?

At least George Galloway is away from the Crossrail 1 discussions this Thursday
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Old January 11th, 2006, 08:32 PM   #377
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlieP
High voltage AC is also a lot more efficient to transmit, since

P=IČR

and

V=IR

i.e. if you double the voltage over a given resistance you halve the current, and the power loss is divided by four...
All of the distribution cables are 25kv AC, obviously you couldn't have 25kv AC live rails as current would be arcing across to the running rails and up to the train
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Old January 11th, 2006, 08:51 PM   #378
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarflonlad
I presume you mean that trains would start at wimbledon then join the H&C at Edgeware with Wimbledon retaining the the Upminster part of the District line? Is this actually likely to happen at all?
Yes, that's what I meant. Is it likely? Well, what I think is more likely is that we'll see the emergence of a strong 'SSR' (Sub-Surface Railway) identity with the introduction of the universal S Stock. We may well witness experimentation with service patterns and perhaps a loss of the traditional line identities. The whole network (Metropolitan + District + Circle + Hammersmith & City + East London) is basically all one big interlinked railway anyway, so services can be re-jigged to maximise capacity. It will probably take over Ealing Common to Uxbridge off the Piccadilly Line too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarflonlad
Looking at a tube map, you wonder why the Wimbledon - Edgeware District line wasn't just called the 'West London Line'.
It would make sense I suppose, or a colloquialism I like is 'Wimbleware'... Bear in mind however that the Willesden Junction to Clapham Junction route (Silverlink and Southern) is also the 'West London Line'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sarflonlad
Can we also assume we wont see the Chelney Line/Crossrail 2 in our lifetimes? What is the safeguarded route for this line exactly?

At least George Galloway is away from the Crossrail 1 discussions this Thursday
Chleney will never appear as a traditional Tube Line, in fact I doubt we'll ever see another traditional Tube line built from scratch. What we will see hopefully is a couple of 'Crossrails', and I think the Chelney / Crossrail 2 option may appear within the next 20 years.

the original route was as follows (I think)

Wimbledon to Parsons Green via District Line > Chelsea > Sloane Sq > Victoria > Green park > Piccadilly Circus > Tottenham Court Rd > King's Cross > Angel > Essex Road > Dalston > Hackney (then a few options)
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Old January 11th, 2006, 11:09 PM   #379
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Why do some stations have platforms on top of each other? My home station used to be south ken, where the piccadilly is one on top of the other. Is this because of geological issues?
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Old January 12th, 2006, 04:08 AM   #380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_storms
Why do some stations have platforms on top of each other? My home station used to be south ken, where the piccadilly is one on top of the other. Is this because of geological issues?
Mainly property rights. In the early 20th Century, lines wer built under streets as they were publicly owned and this avoided having to buy rights off property-owners. This was stuck to even with very deep lines, like the Piccadilly. If the streets got narrow or twisty overhead, the tubes got stacked. That explains both the stacking and the twistiness of the Picc around South Ken.
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