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Old November 13th, 2009, 05:16 PM   #3861
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Just demolition currently; the most striking works are around Tottenham Court Road station, where the whole block where the Astoria nightclub was has been pulled down.

Farringdon will follow soon, the entire block south of the current station is about to be pulled down (the Gay sauna and row of shops right opposite have just come down), including a very substantial office block.

I guess once demolition turns into construction you'll see more updates on ssc.
Hi Tubeman, just one question, was it this block?



They really demolished all those old houses? What for exactly?
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Old November 14th, 2009, 10:55 AM   #3862
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Hi Tubeman, just one question, was it this block?



They really demolished all those old houses? What for exactly?
Yes, that's the Astoria nightclub you've highlighted... But in addition the entire block to the north has also been demolished, along with the fountain in front of Centrepoint over the road:

[IMG]http://i35.************/316uste.jpg[/IMG]

It's not directly linked to Crossrail despite the Crossrail branding on the hoardings, it's for Tottenham Court Road station's redevelopment which is going to happen whether Crossrail does or not. The demolition is necessary due to a huge new ticket hall being excavated and big new entrances on both sides of Charing Cross Road. All that's left of the entire block is the Oxford Street entrance to TCR station.
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Old November 14th, 2009, 11:10 AM   #3863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gareth View Post
Simple question:

What's the average distance between stations on an Underground line? What's the ideal distance between stations?
Approximately 1.5km, 400km total divided by 270 stations

I'm not 100% sure because the 400km is approximate and I don't know if it counts Network rail owned sections served by LU on the District and Bakerloo Lines, or if the parallel bits of the Met / Jubilee and District / Picc are counted twice.

The average is obviously much less in Central London compared to the suburbs, with the longest distance being 6.2km between Chesham and Chalfont versus just 260m between Leicester Square and Covent Garden.

This reflects the optimum... I guess Central London should be perhaps 1km and the suburbs 2km+, but so much depends on local geography.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 07:51 AM   #3864
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Hopefully the service can be improved over time. It doesn't seem like it will be convenient to use on the weekends
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Old November 19th, 2009, 11:52 AM   #3865
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Hi... I wanted to know where to find (if they exist) track maps of LU simalr to these ones of NYC Subway http://www.nycsubway.org/maps/track.html

In particular I'm interested to Earl's Court junction and its interconnection with Circle Line

Thank you
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Old November 19th, 2009, 09:06 PM   #3866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GENIUS LOCI View Post
Hi... I wanted to know where to find (if they exist) track maps of LU simalr to these ones of NYC Subway http://www.nycsubway.org/maps/track.html

In particular I'm interested to Earl's Court junction and its interconnection with Circle Line

Thank you
Check out my signature

I've mapped all of London's railways accurately.

I can access the 'official' track diagrams for any area of LU for you if you want, here's a link from another site of the Earl's Court area. You have the pre-1957 version above and the post-1957 version below, the latter being pretty much as it is today, pre-1957 was much more complex even with an additional curve between High Street ken and Gloucester Road parallelling the Circle Line.
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Old November 20th, 2009, 10:25 AM   #3867
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Thank you...

I was looking for a track map because in Italian forum some one was asking why in Glocester road station he saw a train enter the station just a coupple of seconds another one left (in off-peak, without crowded platforms)

Assuming that they couldn't be the planned frequencies I based my answer on my direct esperience on LU, and in particular with Earl's Court junction: I supposed the second one to be a district line train coming from Earl's Court which stopped in the 'tunnel' to let a Circle Line train pass, then enter the same track, stop again and wait for the CL train to leave the staion; finally enter the station just few seconds after
But it was a 'blind' explanation as I just supposed how the disposition of the tracks is on the junction... I wanted to be sure: apparently I was right, isn't it?
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Old November 20th, 2009, 12:37 PM   #3868
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What happens quite often at Gloucester Road is a Circle Line train will set down and pick up passengers as normal in platform 2 (Westbound / Outer Rail / Clockwise), and then close its doors and pull up to the signal controlling the junction ahead, which is only about 5 cars distance so the last car is still on the platform. This means if there's a Circle behind, it can creep right up to the other end of the platform and wait, which in turn clears the junction behind it where the Westbound District and Circle Lines diverge between South Kensington and Gloucester Road.

So if you're stood on the platform, you'll see the back of one train still in the platform, and the headlights of the train behind just outside the platform... When the one in front gets the signal to proceed across the Eastbound District Line, the one behind and creep in, leaving only a few seconds of neither train being in platform 2.

The Circles are allowed to pull partially out of platform 2 and wait (much to the frustration of customers who just missed it), because this speeds up junction working over the diamond crossover. If the movement was controlled by the station 'starter' signal alone, you would have the Circle waiting for the green with its doors open... when it gets the green all manner of delays could ensue with people mucking about with doors, a passenger alarm, etc... and all the while the eastbound District will be shut down because the Westbound Circle has the signal to cross it.

Being forced to leave the platform and pull up to an advance signal gives the signaller assurance that if the Circle train is cleared to cross the eastbound District and run to High Street Ken, it will go right away and therefore delay the eastbound District as little as possible.

The Gloucester Road to South Kensington section on the diagrams I linked to was greatly rationalised in 1972, by the way... There's now only one eastbound line throughout, South Kensington uses only the middle 2 platforms with the central 'bay' in-filled, while on the westbound the District and Circle lines diverge into two separate tracks between South Ken and Gloucester Rd, running through platforms 1 and 2 respectively.
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Old November 25th, 2009, 10:45 PM   #3869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Great thread, tubeman. Thanks for doing this.

I've always wondered about the actual size of tube station complexes in central London. Some seem so huge that I wonder if they're actually located directly next to each other, if you include walkways between lines. Do you know if there is an illustration anywhere showing how the tube stations are layed out in relation to one another (something like this: http://media.photobucket.com/image/b...lim/ltmonu.jpg only including more stations). THanks!
I've found a flickr set of several station cut-aways/maps here.
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Old November 26th, 2009, 12:23 AM   #3870
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Good find... I guess that's just what pneuma was looking for!

I wonder why such diagrams are so hard to come by?
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Old November 26th, 2009, 07:57 PM   #3871
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Yes, that's the Astoria nightclub you've highlighted... But in addition the entire block to the north has also been demolished, along with the fountain in front of Centrepoint over the road:

[IMG]http://i35.************/316uste.jpg[/IMG]

It's not directly linked to Crossrail despite the Crossrail branding on the hoardings, it's for Tottenham Court Road station's redevelopment which is going to happen whether Crossrail does or not. The demolition is necessary due to a huge new ticket hall being excavated and big new entrances on both sides of Charing Cross Road. All that's left of the entire block is the Oxford Street entrance to TCR station.
A shot from when I (and my girlfriend) was in London a week ago, of that area:
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Old November 28th, 2009, 06:31 PM   #3872
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Question

Why do the northern line tunnels flip round between Bank and London Bridge?You leave one station 'driving on the left' and arrive at the next on the other side - weird. (I think it's these two stations - I noticed this a while back and have been meaning to ask for some time)

THanks in advance
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Old November 29th, 2009, 08:04 PM   #3873
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Quote:
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Question

Why do the northern line tunnels flip round between Bank and London Bridge?You leave one station 'driving on the left' and arrive at the next on the other side - weird. (I think it's these two stations - I noticed this a while back and have been meaning to ask for some time)

THanks in advance
This happens all across the the network .. i suppose it comes down to space avaliable at each independent station site ... no build zones / listed buildings / security zones ... foundations for buildings, water, access points at ground level, previous tunnels and war related underground bunkers ... and so on ..

Edit : Just re-read your post i think i misunderstood .... my post may explain why entry/exit doors on trains open on different sides at different stations ...

... maybe this is due to the old King William Street station ?
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Old November 29th, 2009, 08:21 PM   #3874
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What's the maximum number of passengers allowed to be standing in London busses nowadays (I know my question's not tube-related)?

Thanking you in advance.
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Old November 29th, 2009, 10:53 PM   #3875
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Whatever it may be it's not respected.
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Old November 29th, 2009, 11:52 PM   #3876
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What's the maximum number of passengers allowed to be standing in London busses nowadays (I know my question's not tube-related)?

Thanking you in advance.

There is no single answer to this question. It will vary from bus model to bus model.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 07:55 PM   #3877
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There is no single answer to this question. It will vary from bus model to bus model.
Indeed... Anything from 15 or so on a standard double decker to 100+ on a bendy
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Old November 30th, 2009, 08:21 PM   #3878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capslock View Post
Question

Why do the northern line tunnels flip round between Bank and London Bridge?You leave one station 'driving on the left' and arrive at the next on the other side - weird. (I think it's these two stations - I noticed this a while back and have been meaning to ask for some time)

THanks in advance
Hi I'm not ignoring your very good question, I'm trying to find the right explanation because it's always bugged me too, and I'm sure I saw the reason in a book somewhere.
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Old November 30th, 2009, 10:57 PM   #3879
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Hi I'm not ignoring your very good question, I'm trying to find the right explanation because it's always bugged me too, and I'm sure I saw the reason in a book somewhere.
The only explanation I've ever found is that back in the early 1900s, the railways had to pay "easements" to the property owners under which their train tunnels run. To avoid this, the railways followed the streets were possible, no matter how deep they were underground. On this stretch of the Northern Line, the tunnels roll over each other for "operational reasons". Some of the roads the Northern Line travels under are too narrow for side-by-side tunnels, so the tunnels needed to be stacked, I'm assuming that the tunnels roll over each other to reduce the curvature and to allow the stacking on the narrow road sections.

Anybody else have a better explanation?
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Old December 1st, 2009, 01:00 AM   #3880
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The only explanation I've ever found is that back in the early 1900s, the railways had to pay "easements" to the property owners under which their train tunnels run. To avoid this, the railways followed the streets were possible, no matter how deep they were underground. On this stretch of the Northern Line, the tunnels roll over each other for "operational reasons". Some of the roads the Northern Line travels under are too narrow for side-by-side tunnels, so the tunnels needed to be stacked, I'm assuming that the tunnels roll over each other to reduce the curvature and to allow the stacking on the narrow road sections.

Anybody else have a better explanation?
I've had a close look at this, and casting my mind back to the line topography from my distant days as a Northern Line driver, I think you're right and here's why...

Moorgate is quite wide, so wide enough to accommodate two tracks side by side without encroaching under property, however Prince's Street is very narrow and therefore below this street the tracks would have to be stacked above one another. When you leave Moorgate southbound, you descend quite a steep gradient before the sharp turn to the left where Moorgate becomes Prince's Street. There's no perceptable uphill gradient approaching Moorgate Northbound, so it's clear to me that the Southbound is descending leaving Moorgate in order to run below the Northbound under Prince's Street. At the southern end of Prince's Street the two lines can again diverge and return to the same level, whilst doing so one needs to curve sharper than the other at the top end of Lombard Street before the platforms under King William Street, and it's logical that the sharper curve is reserved for the slower speed track, which is the Northbound because trains are accelerating on the level rather than decelerating up a gradient into the platform.

This difference in curve radii would explain why it was decided it was better for the Northbound and Southbound to switch round through Bank.

Probably.
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