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Old June 23rd, 2010, 11:33 PM   #4121
lightrail
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This is how well Vancouver's intrusion system works - those trains really stop fast, all the more reason to make sure you're holding on at all times.

For those who don't know, the Expo line uses Linear Induction technology for traction (train is pulled along by magnets), which also provides most of the braking. Trains can accelerate and decelerate fast as there's no worry about rail adhesion

From MetroNews.ca Vancouver June 22, 2010
Quote:
Three elderly women were taken to hospital after a pop can fell onto the SkyTrain track, causing the train to skid to a stop, TransLink revealed yesterday.

The incident occurred Sunday afternoon at the 29th Avenue Station on the Expo Line in East Vancouver.

Four elderly female passengers were injured when SkyTrain’s emergency brakes were triggered automatically by the weight of the pop can on the tracks.

SkyTrain president Doug Kelsey said the intrusion alarm is set to a low tolerance and prevents the train from colliding with objects or people on the track.

“Something with the weight of a pop can might also be a wallet or a cell- phone or a child’s toy,” Kelsey said. “The owner of that wallet — or cellphone or toy — could jump onto the tracks after it.”

SkyTrain had 231 intrusion alarm incidents in the past month. Of those, 80 were caused by garbage and the other 10 by people jumping onto the tracks to retrieve objects.
BTW - it also shows the absolute stupidity of people. 10 people jumping on the tracks to retrieve objects in one month. Those trains run every 3 minutes in the daytime and every 108 seconds in the peak. Not to mention the two live rails. Note that not every intrusion alarm causes a delay - depends on the location of the train - due to the moving block signalling. Also, I don't know about you, but I think the editor failed math - 80+10=231?

Last edited by lightrail; June 23rd, 2010 at 11:38 PM.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 12:48 AM   #4122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lightrail View Post
This is how well Vancouver's intrusion system works - those trains really stop fast, all the more reason to make sure you're holding on at all times.

For those who don't know, the Expo line uses Linear Induction technology for traction (train is pulled along by magnets), which also provides most of the braking. Trains can accelerate and decelerate fast as there's no worry about rail adhesion

From MetroNews.ca Vancouver June 22, 2010


BTW - it also shows the absolute stupidity of people. 10 people jumping on the tracks to retrieve objects in one month. Those trains run every 3 minutes in the daytime and every 108 seconds in the peak. Not to mention the two live rails. Note that not every intrusion alarm causes a delay - depends on the location of the train - due to the moving block signalling. Also, I don't know about you, but I think the editor failed math - 80+10=231?
Well that clearly demonstrates to me that the detector is a step too far... It can cause a drinks can rolling off the edge of a platform to injure several people... How many lives has it saved in reality?
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Old June 24th, 2010, 06:05 PM   #4123
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Tubey what does 'passenger action' mean? Does it mean when someone has jumped in front a train?
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Old June 24th, 2010, 08:45 PM   #4124
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Tubey what does 'passenger action' mean? Does it mean when someone has jumped in front a train?
It's a cover-all... A 'one under' would normally be referred to as a 'person under a train', whereas 'passenger action' is most often passenger alarm activation (for whatever reason), soiled trains (vomit, urine on seats), or general vandalism.
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Old June 24th, 2010, 10:38 PM   #4125
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Tubey,

I have been wondering about the third rail that sits between the two rails on the tube. What happens if someone falls onto the tracks? Are they screwed?
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Old June 25th, 2010, 12:12 AM   #4126
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Tubeman,

Thanks for answering my question about one-unders, here's another one:
The northern line and jubilee line stocks where designed and built at more or less the same time, by the same company and share identical bodyshells. So why are there so many quite major differences between them, ie different control philosophy and cab designs, different traction systems ect.
surely it would have been cheaper to order one set of trains instead of two slightly different sets? or was it just a classic case of british bad planning?
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Old June 25th, 2010, 12:31 AM   #4127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
It's a cover-all... A 'one under' would normally be referred to as a 'person under a train', whereas 'passenger action' is most often passenger alarm activation (for whatever reason), soiled trains (vomit, urine on seats), or general vandalism.
Even on announcements to the public? Do they really say 'person under a train'?
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Old June 25th, 2010, 03:00 PM   #4128
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Even on announcements to the public? Do they really say 'person under a train'?
They do - I don't think there are many other systems where they're quite so blunt about it.
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Old June 25th, 2010, 03:59 PM   #4129
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I'm pretty sure I've heard it at least once.
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Old June 25th, 2010, 04:05 PM   #4130
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Why sugar coat it.
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Old June 25th, 2010, 04:13 PM   #4131
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In France it's known as an "incident voyageur" - passenger incident. It makes it sound vague and innocuous but everyone knows what it means.
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Old June 25th, 2010, 09:33 PM   #4132
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Well that clearly demonstrates to me that the detector is a step too far... It can cause a drinks can rolling off the edge of a platform to injure several people... How many lives has it saved in reality?
In Lyon on line D (France's only driverless line without plateform screen doors) they do what they call the "umbrella test": the trains are supposed to stop in case of human intrusion but not if an umbrella fall onto the track.
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Old June 25th, 2010, 09:54 PM   #4133
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Originally Posted by alonzo-ny View Post
Tubey,

I have been wondering about the third rail that sits between the two rails on the tube. What happens if someone falls onto the tracks? Are they screwed?
Very unlikely (unless they get hit by a train of course!)

The middle rail is a mere 210V DC... Put it this way; the household mains is 230V and you'll happily grasp a cable coated in a couple of mm of plastic... So falling across the middle rail wearing even light clothing should mean you won't get a shock. Bare skin or wet clothing is a different matter... and the 'outside' 4th rail is 420V, so I guess you need slightly thicker clothing to insulate.

But no, it's pretty hard to get a shock wearing normal dry clothing.
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Old June 25th, 2010, 09:59 PM   #4134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by future.architect View Post
Tubeman,

Thanks for answering my question about one-unders, here's another one:
The northern line and jubilee line stocks where designed and built at more or less the same time, by the same company and share identical bodyshells. So why are there so many quite major differences between them, ie different control philosophy and cab designs, different traction systems ect.
surely it would have been cheaper to order one set of trains instead of two slightly different sets? or was it just a classic case of british bad planning?
As I'm feeling particularly lazy after an awful day at work, I've decided to simply copy & paste from Wiki... I hang my head in shame...

There is a degree of confusion with regard to the manufacture and delivery of the Jubilee Line and London Underground's Northern Line 1995 Stock. The development programmes for both stocks was run in parallel, with detail design work undertaken by Alstom in the UK at their Birmingham and Rugby facilities, with the first six train sets manufactured in Alstom's Barcelona factory to the 1996 Stock Jubilee Line design. All type approvals for the design were conducted on these early train sets. The production of the 1995 Stock for the Northern Line subsequently followed from the factory in Barcelona. The balance of the 1996 Stock for the Jubilee Line followed the 1995 Stock Production. Both stocks were freighted to Alstom's facility at Washwood Heath in Birmingham for final assembly and equipping, with 1995 and 1996 stock assembled in adjacent production lines.
The 1996 Stock was bought to support the opening of the Jubilee Line Extension (JLE), which runs from Green Park to Stratford. However, delays in the JLE's opening meant that 1996 Stock was introduced, completely replacing the existing fleet of 1983 Stock, between Christmas Eve 1997 and July 1998 - over a year before the JLE was opened. The existing trains (1983 stock) were originally planned to be refurbished with the same exterior and interior as the new stock (1996 stock) even with double doors, but the cost proved prohibitive.
The 1996 Stock and the similar 1995 Stock found on the Northern Line have different interiors, seating layouts and cab designs designed by Warwick Design Consultants. Other differences include different traction packages (Alstom ONIX system on 1995 Northern Line stock), Train Management Systems, slight differences with Tripcock geometry and the use of LED body-side lights on the 1995 Northern Line Tube stock while 1996 Tube stock uses filament bulbs. The most apparent difference between the two stocks is the bogie. The Jubilee stock utilises an Alstom bogie with rubber suspension whereas the Northern Line has fitted AdTranz (now owned by Bombardier) bogies with air suspension to cope with the arduous track conditions encountered on the deepest and longest underground line on the network. The main technical differences occurred because the Jubilee Line 1996 Tube stock was designed as "Cheapest first cost" for LUL, while the 1995 Northern Line Tube stock was designed for "Life Cycle Cost" as Alstom had won the contract to act as service provider and maintainer of this stock.
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Old June 25th, 2010, 10:03 PM   #4135
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Originally Posted by pricemazda View Post
Even on announcements to the public? Do they really say 'person under a train'?
Yes... I guess it is a bit blunt, but I think it's better to say what it is, and therefore reveal the gravity of the incident, rather than just broadcast about a vague 'passenger incident' which customers will be baffled as to why it has closed a line down for two hours.
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Old June 25th, 2010, 10:04 PM   #4136
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In Lyon on line D (France's only driverless line without plateform screen doors) they do what they call the "umbrella test": the trains are supposed to stop in case of human intrusion but not if an umbrella fall onto the track.
Well that's certainly better than an errant drinks can causing several injuries in Vancouver...
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Old June 25th, 2010, 11:35 PM   #4137
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Very unlikely (unless they get hit by a train of course!)

The middle rail is a mere 210V DC... Put it this way; the household mains is 230V and you'll happily grasp a cable coated in a couple of mm of plastic... So falling across the middle rail wearing even light clothing should mean you won't get a shock. Bare skin or wet clothing is a different matter... and the 'outside' 4th rail is 420V, so I guess you need slightly thicker clothing to insulate.

But no, it's pretty hard to get a shock wearing normal dry clothing.
Would you die if your hands grabbed it? Which I guess would be a pretty normal thing to do when falling several feet.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 05:57 AM   #4138
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Well that's certainly better than an errant drinks can causing several injuries in Vancouver...
Agreed. I'm interested on how this technology works. Even as a Vancouverite, I'm surprised the old intrusion system, which uses weight sensors instead of lasers, are THAT sensitive.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 09:30 AM   #4139
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Would you die if your hands grabbed it? Which I guess would be a pretty normal thing to do when falling several feet.
If you grabbed it with bare hands and didn't (or couldn't) let go, then yes it could kill you. Although the voltage is low, the current is high.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 02:09 PM   #4140
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Has it happened before? Or do people who fall on the tracks normal get out ok. (Not including the ones of fall in front of a train.)
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