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Old June 26th, 2010, 02:48 PM   #4141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alonzo-ny View Post
Has it happened before? Or do people who fall on the tracks normal get out ok. (Not including the ones of fall in front of a train.)
Yeah it happens from time to time, but it's pretty rare for people to just spontaneously fall onto the track. Of course people are forever jumping down to retrieve mobile phones etc.

I guess you only hear about it when it goes wrong... I can think of two pretty awful 'two unders' which were both accidental... One at King's Cross where two American students were dicking about as a Victoria Line train came in and somehow both fell under and died. The other was at Earl's Court when I was on duty one day, when a group of QPR youth players were ******* about on the platform and one fell off the edge of the platform as a Piccadilly Line train came in and tragically pulled / knocked a completely unconnected Vietnamese architecture student onto the track with him. Even worse the Vietnamese lad died and the QPR player lived.
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Old June 26th, 2010, 06:45 PM   #4142
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Thanks Tubey. I am used to the NY Subway where I wouldn't worry about falling onto the track as I would know I could lie in the trench between the tracks. In London I always thought I would have to try and get back off the tracks as I would be electrocuted otherwise.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 09:50 AM   #4143
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Thanks Tubey. I am used to the NY Subway where I wouldn't worry about falling onto the track as I would know I could lie in the trench between the tracks. In London I always thought I would have to try and get back off the tracks as I would be electrocuted otherwise.
Well let's hope it's never an issue
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Old June 27th, 2010, 10:05 AM   #4144
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Has anyone got access to that footage from, I think, last year when a completely pissed American woman is caught on camera falling onto the tracks just as a train is coming into the station. It wasn't in London; don't know where it was in fact. Miraculously, the driver managed to stop with inches to spare. She was incredibly lucky....
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Old June 27th, 2010, 10:20 AM   #4145
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It was Boston:

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Old June 27th, 2010, 11:42 AM   #4146
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Incredible footage! Cheers for that!
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Old June 27th, 2010, 11:49 AM   #4147
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Stupid bitch... Kudos to the other passengers... the old guy clearly tells her to lie flat and still and then nearly has his own head taken off as the train comes to a halt.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 11:54 AM   #4148
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Stupid bitch... Kudos to the other passengers... the old guy clearly tells her to lie flat and still and then nearly has his own head taken off as the train comes to a halt.
In her defense, she is intoxicated in a half-unconscious state.
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Old June 27th, 2010, 01:45 PM   #4149
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In her defense, she is intoxicated in a half-unconscious state.
Not much of a defence (although I have often used it myself )
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Old June 30th, 2010, 04:09 AM   #4150
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man i haven't been here for sometime now, i am songoten2554 under a new name now so don't worry its still same old me.

anyways i been curious on whats happening with british rail.

1. i hear of the great western mainline electrfication but has any actions are taking shape i mean the factory trains, the putting poles for the cables and wires and such?

2. i hear new construction for crossrail and will they extend it to reading and to Ebbisfleet international?

3. any more london light rail projects besides crydon sorry if pronounced the name wrong but light rail projects like city light rail and such?

4. also i heard other lines getting electrified like midland mainline, the line from manchester to liverpool and such?
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Old June 30th, 2010, 10:08 PM   #4151
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There's a blunt answer to all 4: No chance for the foreseeable future

We're in a financial crisis and subject to huge public sector spending cuts, so any large infrastructure projects which aren't already underway are on hold under the new government. Looks like Crossrail is safe, but there was recently talk of pruning back parts of the route such as Isle of Dogs to Abbey Wood and beyond Heathrow Junction, the latter because it requires electrification of the Great Western main line. As it is I think the full scope of Crossrail is safe, but the stations are being scaled back to save money and some may be dropped altogether (e.g. Bond Street).

Ebbsfleet similarly involves OHLE electrification from Abbey Wood to there, which would be expensive, although I hope it is inevitable that one day Crossrail services go beyond Abbey Wood, because terminating there doesn't exploit that branch's capacity fully (it should continue to at least Dartford).
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 07:08 PM   #4152
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Does anyone know what, on a bus or request stop; "tailstop" means?
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Old July 2nd, 2010, 07:51 PM   #4153
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Does anyone know what, on a bus or request stop; "tailstop" means?
It's for the older rear door buses - tail stop instructs the driver to stop with the rear of the bus at the bus stop sign.
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 08:19 PM   #4154
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Hi Tubeman!
This is an excellent thread! I've just read the whole thread (not non stop, I started sometime last autumn and have read a bit now and then).

Your post #3966 (on page 199) should perhaps be in the FAQ?

(Also, atleast the TPH to Amersham and Chesham could probably be figured out by searching in TfL's route planner)?

I have a few questions regarding the (central part of the) subsurface lines:

If I understand your post 3966 correctly, the train frequency between Gloucester Road and Tower Hill is arount 28½ TPH. (Three District services that run every 8 minutes each = 60/8 = 7½ TPH each, and the T-Cup every 10 minute = 60/10 = 6 TPH, added together 7½+7½+7½+6 = 28½).
Question 1: Is this correct?

Question 2: How long would the dwell time be if aprroximately 50% of the travellers would exit a train and then other travelers would fill upp the train again at the same platform?

Question 3: What would the desired peak TPH be in the "circle area" (including Earls Court and Aldgate East), if there were no technical limits of how many trains you could run? (I.E. if the signalling system were optimal and especially if there were no limiting flat junctions).

Question 4: what train length can the "non-Metropolitan line" platforms of the Circle and central parts of the District handle? Would the driver of a 8-car Metropolitan train be allowed to open the doors at the platform if he/she accepted a wrong train path to a non-Metropolitan part of the Circle/District?

Question 5: How come the junctions at Earls Court are grade separated when every other junction in and close to the Circle is at grade level? Perhaps this has something to do with that the District and the Metropolitan were separate companies at one time?

Question 6: Why is there a reversing facility at Putney Bridge and not at East Putney? (I assume East Putney would be better when mainline trains fill up the Wimbledon branch)?

Question 7: How expensive/disruptive would it be to build a new platform at Earls Court for the Olympia shuttle (which would then terminate at Earls Court)?

(If the shuttle could have it's own track all the way, maybe the the platform could be shorter (=less expensive to build)and the train frequency increased to compensate for shorter trains. If there is a specific event at Olympia, outside peak hours, trains could use the connecting tracks to the District "main line" (West Kensington - Earls Court) and the trains could run through at Earls Court).

Thanks for all your information!
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 08:38 PM   #4155
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Double post. Sorry!
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Old July 3rd, 2010, 10:04 PM   #4156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiaM View Post
Hi Tubeman!
This is an excellent thread! I've just read the whole thread (not non stop, I started sometime last autumn and have read a bit now and then).

Your post #3966 (on page 199) should perhaps be in the FAQ?

(Also, atleast the TPH to Amersham and Chesham could probably be figured out by searching in TfL's route planner)?

I have a few questions regarding the (central part of the) subsurface lines:

If I understand your post 3966 correctly, the train frequency between Gloucester Road and Tower Hill is arount 28½ TPH. (Three District services that run every 8 minutes each = 60/8 = 7½ TPH each, and the T-Cup every 10 minute = 60/10 = 6 TPH, added together 7½+7½+7½+6 = 28½).
Question 1: Is this correct?

Question 2: How long would the dwell time be if aprroximately 50% of the travellers would exit a train and then other travelers would fill upp the train again at the same platform?

Question 3: What would the desired peak TPH be in the "circle area" (including Earls Court and Aldgate East), if there were no technical limits of how many trains you could run? (I.E. if the signalling system were optimal and especially if there were no limiting flat junctions).

Question 4: what train length can the "non-Metropolitan line" platforms of the Circle and central parts of the District handle? Would the driver of a 8-car Metropolitan train be allowed to open the doors at the platform if he/she accepted a wrong train path to a non-Metropolitan part of the Circle/District?

Question 5: How come the junctions at Earls Court are grade separated when every other junction in and close to the Circle is at grade level? Perhaps this has something to do with that the District and the Metropolitan were separate companies at one time?

Question 6: Why is there a reversing facility at Putney Bridge and not at East Putney? (I assume East Putney would be better when mainline trains fill up the Wimbledon branch)?

Question 7: How expensive/disruptive would it be to build a new platform at Earls Court for the Olympia shuttle (which would then terminate at Earls Court)?

(If the shuttle could have it's own track all the way, maybe the the platform could be shorter (=less expensive to build)and the train frequency increased to compensate for shorter trains. If there is a specific event at Olympia, outside peak hours, trains could use the connecting tracks to the District "main line" (West Kensington - Earls Court) and the trains could run through at Earls Court).

Thanks for all your information!
Wow kudos for reading the whole thread! ...And thanks for the kind words

Regarding your queries...

1) Yes, spot on

2) Not an exact science, but I'd take a punt on approx 30 seconds

3) To be honest, I don't think much more than is currently provided is really necessary on the southern side of the Circle (i.e. approx 30tph), as it is during the peaks it's busy but not unbearably so. The northern half is a different story, but for me this is bad planning. The Circle and H&C trains are often horribly overcrowded (I should know I travel from King's Cross to Edgware Rd every day) while the Metropolitan trains are rarely so... The logic being that Met trains have more capacity being longer, but many passengers need to travel beyond Baker Street if travelling west so the Met trains are no use to them. Personally, I'd have a much more frequent Circle / H&C service and cut back on the Met trains going beyond Baker Street onto the Circle. Although this reduces capacity in terms of train length, it is more reflective of journey patterns.

4) Varies from platform to platform... Some can accommodate an 8 car A Stock (e.g. St James's Park), others can't (e.g. Gloucester Road). The District
Line used to run trains of 9 cars in the peaks, but there was then the added complexity of doors not opening at certain platforms and uncoupling the additional 2 car unit off the usual 7 cars at Parson's Green between the peaks, a lot of extra hassle really.

I don't think it would really be possible for an A Stock to accidentally end up on the southern side of the Circle... I guess the only way this could have happened would have been when they used to work the East London Line, and therefore there were stock transfers between that line and Neasden depot via the District Line (via St Mary's Curve), if they then took the wrong signal at Aldgate East they'd have ended up at Tower Hill, but they would have been empty anyway.

5) I guess that fact that the junctions at Warwick Road and Cromwell Road were 100% Metropolitan District Railway might have been a factor in them both being grade separated, the relationship between the Metropolitan District and Metropolitan railways was often spiky. Another factor might simply have been space; when first built the two junctions either side of Earl's Court were in the open air and have only subsequently been covered over so building grade separation was easier.

6) There is a crossover at East Putney, but it's what's known as a 'ground frame' and therefore needs someone to be on site and physically throw the points with levers to use it. Putney Bridge was the terminus for some years, and so I guess the Bay platform is a vestige of this. That being said, I'm not too sure what the arrangement was there when it was a terminus (i.e. how many platforms there were). Currently the eastbound and bay road are on brick viaduct while the westbound skews out onto a fairly flimsy iron structure which was obviously a later addition, so I suspect that while Putney Bridge was the terminus it was just the 2 platforms on the original viaduct, and when the line was extended over the river the westbound iron viaduct was added in order to create the central bay road. I suspect this was the case because beyond Putney Bridge ownership switched from Metropolitan District Railway to London & Southwestern Railway (the LSWR actually built the entire line from Putney Bridge to East Puntey despite never having operated a train over it). Therefore, Putney Bridge was the last station wholly under District railway, then later London Transport, ownership, and it followed that this was a logical reversing point.

The boundary between LU and BR was always halfway across the bridge over the Thames, which was also where electrification switched from 4th rail 630V to 3rd rail 750V, until LU bought the line from Putney Bridge to Wimbledon off British Rail in 1990 for the princely sum of £1. It was so cheap because the bridge was rammed by the 'Thames Bubbler' barge (a boat which oxygenates the river in the summer for the benefit of the wildlife) and required extensive repairs, which BR had no interest in paying for.

There usually is only very light mainline usage of the East Putney to Wimbledon section, just a few stock moves each day, but fairly often due to engineering works or an incident they'll suddenly route numerous passenger services along the line as a diversion avoiding the Wimbledon - Clapham Junction section. One of the caveats of the £1 sale to LU was that BR would retain complete control over signalling along the line, hence they can do as they please much to the dismay of the District Line Controller.

7) I have previously suggested trying to carve out a short platform for a separated Olympia shuttle at Earl's Court. The branch has a separate track all the way the the Warwick Road overbridge, where it joins the eastbound District ex-West Kensington. The main issue is that the Warwick Road overbridge is an original brick arch which only accommodates 2 tracks beneath it (the two eastbound District tracks), so to extend the separated Olympia branch to a new shuttle platform at Earl's Court would basically necessitate the span being demolished and replaced with one wide enough to accommodate 3 tracks... causing a lot of disruption to rail and road. Tantalisingly there is enough LU-owned space for a small (maybe 3 car) platform to the north-west of Earl's Court station, it's currently offices and the substation. So really the Warwick Road bridge is the main obstacle.

In principle though yes, I think a separate shuttle platform at ECT for the Olympia service would be ideal.
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Old July 9th, 2010, 11:58 AM   #4157
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What is this? Does this exist?
http://londonreconnections.blogspot....great-and.html
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Old July 9th, 2010, 08:13 PM   #4158
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Tubeman a discussion we were having on the Metrolink thread in the Manchester forums I wondered what your opinion was with your experience of a high frequency system.

Anyway with the current expansions underway one stretch of viaduct (Cornbrook) will have a 45tph frequency running along it by 2016, theirs also another proposed extension appearing in docs recently that would take that to 50tph or beyond, the networks being resignalled to Line of sight operation with a theoretical capacity of 84tph, however do you think its really possible for a single platform reliably to manage a tram on average every 1m10 seconds? (ignore volume of passenger embarkation/disembarkation and assume a 30 second dwell time).
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Old July 9th, 2010, 10:26 PM   #4159
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Pretty much all explained in the article; Ashfield House is the main training location for new entrants and internal promotional courses. The 'West Ashfield' station is relatively new (I had a guided tour when it was first commissioned maybe 18 months ago)... It's all very cool and all I can say is it's a bloody good thing it was all but finished when the financial crunch hit LUL.

Ashfield House holds a lot of strong memories for many LU staff... before it was built the training centre used to be the notorious White City 'school' which was run more like a military boot camp by all accounts. Ashfield to me holds many fond memories of training for Guard, Driver, Duty Manager, as well as other not so fond experiences of job interviews and assessments.
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Old July 9th, 2010, 10:29 PM   #4160
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Tubeman a discussion we were having on the Metrolink thread in the Manchester forums I wondered what your opinion was with your experience of a high frequency system.

Anyway with the current expansions underway one stretch of viaduct (Cornbrook) will have a 45tph frequency running along it by 2016, theirs also another proposed extension appearing in docs recently that would take that to 50tph or beyond, the networks being resignalled to Line of sight operation with a theoretical capacity of 84tph, however do you think its really possible for a single platform reliably to manage a tram on average every 1m10 seconds? (ignore volume of passenger embarkation/disembarkation and assume a 30 second dwell time).
In a word, no... Although I stand to be corrected. Those frequencies are insane! Although I guess the plus for trams is they can just pull up to each other into a queue, so it is achievable but would I assume be very stop-start (quicker walking!).
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