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Old July 10th, 2010, 11:45 AM   #4161
ajw373
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In a word, no... Although I stand to be corrected. Those frequencies are insane! Although I guess the plus for trams is they can just pull up to each other into a queue, so it is achievable but would I assume be very stop-start (quicker walking!).
It happens in St Kilda road Melbourne on a daily basis where they can in peak hour get 60 trams/h through. It only works for the reason you said above, plus clearly you can have multiple trams loading at the same time.
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Old July 10th, 2010, 02:22 PM   #4162
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It happens in St Kilda road Melbourne on a daily basis where they can in peak hour get 60 trams/h through. It only works for the reason you said above, plus clearly you can have multiple trams loading at the same time.
I guess they should extend the platforms in Manchester city centre then... To my recollection they're just a tram's length long, but I guess if they could accommodate 2 or 3 trams at once it would be better. You run the risk as a passenger of missing your tram because it's at the back of a line of three though... A similar principle to several bendy buses turning up at once in London, often you're oblivious to the fact that your bus has come and gone because it was so far away from the actual bus stop.
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Old July 11th, 2010, 02:49 AM   #4163
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The platforms are all two tram lengths long (a few are 3 or 4 lengths long) and a tram will share a platform on city sections but not former rail sections due to (not for long) absoloute block signalling. Doubles do operate in morning and afternoon peaks, the vehicles can be driven in multiples of 4 but besides the normal double working and when coupled towing and pushing a disabled vehicle its not done, would love to see a 116m long tram going down the street though
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Old July 13th, 2010, 10:29 PM   #4164
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If there was an incident down a tunnel, and the train operator couldn't get through to the line controller then what is the proceedure? can the train op just get everyone down the tunnel on his/her own if there was a serious emergency or would they always have to wait for ages for station staff to arrive?
and those tunnel telephone wires (the two little copper ones) can you still use them to discharge traction current / call the controller?
ta
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Old July 14th, 2010, 10:26 AM   #4165
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If there was an incident down a tunnel, and the train operator couldn't get through to the line controller then what is the proceedure? can the train op just get everyone down the tunnel on his/her own if there was a serious emergency or would they always have to wait for ages for station staff to arrive?
and those tunnel telephone wires (the two little copper ones) can you still use them to discharge traction current / call the controller?
ta
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With no contact at all, a driver can detrain off their own backs but this is only if there is real risk to leaving them on board because the train is generally the safest place for them. Provided it's simple single bore tunnel, the train forms the 'protection', so the driver would place SCDs (short circuiting devices, essentially a metal bar which is placed across the current rails short circuiting / tripping out current and ensuring it remains so) front and rear of the train and walk passengers forwards. It is pretty unlikely that such a detrainment would ever occur however.

The Tunnel Telephone Wires (the pair of insulated copper wires running at cab height along all tunnels) should still trip out traction current if pinched together regardless, and if the radio isn't working the telephone handset which is clipped provides another way of contacting control.
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Old July 15th, 2010, 07:54 PM   #4166
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Hi
The Tunnel Telephone Wires (the pair of insulated copper wires running at cab height along all tunnels) should still trip out traction current if pinched together regardless, and if the radio isn't working the telephone handset which is clipped provides another way of contacting control.
I would hope these are uninsulated, otherwise it would be impossible to clip a phone to them or to short them out.
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Old July 18th, 2010, 11:26 AM   #4167
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I would hope these are uninsulated, otherwise it would be impossible to clip a phone to them or to short them out.
Sorry I meant insulated as in they're insulated from the tunnel lining; every few metres they're fixed to the tunnel wall via white circular porcelain insulators similar in appearance (but much smaller than) those supporting the current rails.

Yes the wires themselves are of course uninsulated, although the procedure is to pinch them together and then rub them against each other in case a build-up of tunnel dust is forming an insulating layer.

With the advent of 'Connect' radio, the Tunnel telephone wire system is pretty much obsolete. Once upon a time the wires were not only the only way for a driver to turn of current in an emergency in tunnel section apart from throwing down an SCD on live track (which is understandably potentially dangerous), they were also the only method of communication with anyone else from tunnel sections.

An interesting old photo of the Tunnel telephone wires in use: here a driver has clipped his phone handset onto the wires (faintly apparent just above the cable run) and is talking to Control in this obviously staged photo (Standard Stock, Piccadilly Line):

[IMG]http://i28.************/2hevdpw.jpg[/IMG]
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Old July 19th, 2010, 02:34 PM   #4168
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That is an interesting photo. Not much room between the train and the tunnel.

While I am here, How is new 2009 stock settling in on the Victoria line? I really like the look of them.
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Old July 19th, 2010, 10:23 PM   #4169
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That is an interesting photo. Not much room between the train and the tunnel.

While I am here, How is new 2009 stock settling in on the Victoria line? I really like the look of them.
Certainly isn't! You can appreciate why designing new rolling stock can be a potential minefield with a few extra mm here and their potentially snagging on the tunnel lining or cables.

Regarding the '09 stock, they're still in the bedding in period and are not managing an acceptable mean km between failures, but this is perfectly normal. They're making more and more forays into daytime, with (I think) 7 now running, or about 20% of the fleet.
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Old July 20th, 2010, 05:21 AM   #4170
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Certainly isn't! You can appreciate why designing new rolling stock can be a potential minefield with a few extra mm here and their potentially snagging on the tunnel lining or cables.

Regarding the '09 stock, they're still in the bedding in period and are not managing an acceptable mean km between failures, but this is perfectly normal. They're making more and more forays into daytime, with (I think) 7 now running, or about 20% of the fleet.
Yes there will always be teething problems, and it's normally got something to do with doors:-), they can't be doing that bad then if they account for 20% of the fleet already.

Can you tell me if the stock upgrade has been effected by the spending cuts? Not so much the signaling works, I have already read about that but mainly the s stock program on lines other than the Metropolitan, is that going ahead as planned? I can't remember who was due for s stock after the Met.
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Old July 20th, 2010, 10:59 PM   #4171
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Yes there will always be teething problems, and it's normally got something to do with doors:-), they can't be doing that bad then if they account for 20% of the fleet already.

Can you tell me if the stock upgrade has been effected by the spending cuts? Not so much the signaling works, I have already read about that but mainly the s stock program on lines other than the Metropolitan, is that going ahead as planned? I can't remember who was due for s stock after the Met.
The S Stock order is in so there's no going back... After the A Stock will be the C Stock (Circle / Hammersmith & City Lines), then finally the D Stock.

A and C are pretty urgent (1960 and 1969 respectively), but D (1978) has only just been refurbished and is very reliable and I think could have another 15-20 years squeezed out of them.

...So fortunately the Victoria and subsurface rolling stock upgrades were too far advanced to be affected by the current financial woes, it's the Piccadilly (1973) and Bakerloo (1972) which will likely suffer... And potentially the Central Line when the 1992 Stock is replaced which was seriously being considered a couple of years back due to several major problems (e.g. motors falling off, leading to the Chancery Lane derailment).
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Old July 21st, 2010, 01:30 AM   #4172
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Hey Tubeman, do you happen to have a map showing the unused railroad/underground tracks in London? I just want to see what the network would look like if all the unused tracks are brought back into the network.
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Old July 21st, 2010, 01:39 AM   #4173
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Hey Tubeman, do you happen to have a map showing the unused railroad/underground tracks in London? I just want to see what the network would look like if all the unused tracks are brought back into the network.
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Old July 21st, 2010, 11:00 AM   #4174
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....but D (1978) has only just been refurbished and is very reliable and I think could have another 15-20 years squeezed out of them.
Always been my favourite stock for some reason, ever since a kid, and I don't know why. Went on a refurbed one the other day for the first time, quite impressed.
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Old July 21st, 2010, 03:22 PM   #4175
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Always been my favourite stock for some reason, ever since a kid, and I don't know why. Went on a refurbed one the other day for the first time, quite impressed.
I agree, they seem to be refurbed to high standard, should be no rush to replace them at all.

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The S Stock order is in so there's no going back... After the A Stock will be the C Stock (Circle / Hammersmith & City Lines), then finally the D Stock.
Thank's, I thought that would be the case.
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Old July 21st, 2010, 09:17 PM   #4176
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Always been my favourite stock for some reason, ever since a kid, and I don't know why. Went on a refurbed one the other day for the first time, quite impressed.
I remember them first appearing in the early 1980's rumbling past my house and being really excited at how modern they looked compared to the R and CO/CP stocks ('silver' and 'red' trains, respectively, to the very young Tubeman). Little did I know that I'd be driving them within 20 years.

They are easy to drive, reliable, robust, simple fault diagnostics... Arguably the pinnacle of LU rolling stock technology (although not aesthetic design... They are plain and functional without being ugly). Subsequent stocks will have a far shorter shelf life than the D78.
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 03:46 AM   #4177
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Do you have a "free" map to share?
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Old July 22nd, 2010, 11:57 AM   #4178
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I remember them first appearing in the early 1980's rumbling past my house and being really excited at how modern they looked compared to the R and CO/CP stocks ('silver' and 'red' trains, respectively, to the very young Tubeman). Little did I know that I'd be driving them within 20 years.

They are easy to drive, reliable, robust, simple fault diagnostics... Arguably the pinnacle of LU rolling stock technology (although not aesthetic design... They are plain and functional without being ugly). Subsequent stocks will have a far shorter shelf life than the D78.
I first remember them going to my Dad's at Palmers Green as a kid, would have been mid-80s. They were obviously quite new then, and had a better livery (imo), plain white (grey/dirt) with the red beard at the front. As a kid I was flabbergasted at the scene at Earl's Court - I couldn't believe so much was going on in just one station that was not even close to being the most important transport interchange in London.

At the time it was my dream to work at Earls Court controlling them all - it seems 20 years later you fulfilled not only your dreams but mine as well.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 11:37 AM   #4179
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Do you have a "free" map to share?
Not really... Not because I'm being difficult or trying to boost sales, but because my work is very detailed and spread over 60 pages so I haven't got a single-page map giving an overview. I have stitched every page together into one enormous Visio document which can in turn be PDF'd, but its true dimensions are about 200cm by 150cm so its impossible to share it really.

Is there any particular area you're interested in?

Truth be know there really isn't a huge number of abandoned lines in London of any significant length, loads of closed stations and goods facilities, but a significant proportion of closed lines have been subsequently re-used and re-opened e.g. by DLR, Tramlink and most recently the East London Line extension.

The main stretches of unused closed railway are:

Nunhead - Crystal Palace High level (largely built over)
Seven Sisters - Palace Gates Wood Green (almost entirely built over)
Finsbury park - Alexandra Palace via Highgate ('Parkland Walk')
Stratford - North Woolwich (will almost entirely become DLR and Crossrail)
West Drayton - Uxbridge Vine Street
Denham - Uxbridge High Street
Harrow & Wealdstone - Stanmore Village
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Old July 24th, 2010, 11:37 AM   #4180
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I first remember them going to my Dad's at Palmers Green as a kid, would have been mid-80s. They were obviously quite new then, and had a better livery (imo), plain white (grey/dirt) with the red beard at the front. As a kid I was flabbergasted at the scene at Earl's Court - I couldn't believe so much was going on in just one station that was not even close to being the most important transport interchange in London.

At the time it was my dream to work at Earls Court controlling them all - it seems 20 years later you fulfilled not only your dreams but mine as well.
I aim to please
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