daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Subways and Urban Transport

Subways and Urban Transport Metros, subways, light rail, trams, buses and other local transport systems



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 26th, 2010, 01:33 AM   #4181
the zohan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London NW3
Posts: 24
Likes (Received): 0

What about the D stocks ill fated tube stock counterparts on the jubilee (1983 stock)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE-Poj9zhnE
heres a video of one on a railtour and goes through earls court and olympia, you can see how similar the two are
I think there are still a few of these units hanging around south harrow sidings and there is one in the london transport museums depot in acton.
the zohan no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 26th, 2010, 09:59 PM   #4182
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by the zohan View Post
What about the D stocks ill fated tube stock counterparts on the jubilee (1983 stock)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jE-Poj9zhnE
heres a video of one on a railtour and goes through earls court and olympia, you can see how similar the two are
I think there are still a few of these units hanging around south harrow sidings and there is one in the london transport museums depot in acton.
Despite being ostensibly very similar to the super reliable D Stock, for some reason... I guess maybe miniaturisation to Tube stock size... they were not deemed very good trains in terms of reliability, maintenance etc. Certainly the single leaf doors common to both stocks proved woefully inadequate for a Tube stock in terms of dwell times.

That said I'm surprised that the Isle of Wight line didn't take a few to replace the antique 1938 stock still running there, at least that would have represented a 45 year leap forwards in technology.

Not too sure if any have been preserved in working order, but quite possibly the weirdest sight in London is the 1983 Stock cars plonked on top of the remaining stub of the Broad Street viaduct not used by the East London Line, overlooking Great Eastern Street:







They're part of Village Underground, basically a set of artists' workspaces in uber trendy Shoreditch / Hoxton.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2010, 10:06 PM   #4183
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by the zohan View Post
Just watched the video... Two of my former Duty Manager colleagues at Earl's Court at 3'10"... Jerry Williams and Vijay Patel... I think I'll send them the link
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 12th, 2010, 01:36 PM   #4184
Dobbo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,459
Likes (Received): 270

Hi Tubey,

Have read your thread with some interest. the history and querks of the Tube certainly make fascinating reading and finding out about some of these certainly make the daily commute less dull.

My curiosity these days surrounds the future (long term) plans for the network, and your opinion on this. Of course the modernisation of the existing network has to be undertaken - especially the signalling - first in order that any extension or new lines can have a common operating system.

My questions really are:

What is your opinion on the impact Crossrail will have on the Tube network? Will it form the template for new lines in the future, given the potentially massive capacity it will bring.

On the prospect of new lines, do you think the proposed "Chelney" line will go ahead, and if so do you think it will be a "Tube" or a "Crossrail 2"?

Are we likely to see the "split" of the Northern line branches so that the Charing + branch winds up at Nine Elms?

Is it a realistic prospect that the Victoria and Bakerloo line will be extended south in the near future - once the upgrades are completed?
Dobbo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 14th, 2010, 12:02 PM   #4185
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Hi Dobbo

Crossrail impact:

I'd certainly expect an appreciable relief to the Central, Bakerloo, Northern half of the Circle, Jubilee and Piccadilly Lines, the Central is a no-brainer and I'd expect a dent to be made in Bakerloo usership by Crossrail taking away a lot of the Paddington > West End traffic. Likewise the Paddington > City traffic will be relieved off the Circle / H&C Lines. The Piccadilly will lose a lot of its Heathrow traffic unless BAA keep the fares to the airport inflated like with the Heathrow Express, and the Jubilee will be relieved by virtue of Crossrail serving Canary Wharf with 'better' destinations.

The remaining questions all have a similar answer:

No

I guess the best chance is for the Northern Line to Battersea, and only then if the developers pay for it.

Otherwise any form of public expenditure of the scale of a new Tube line or significant extension is out of the question at present.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2010, 05:59 PM   #4186
London Underground
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 107
Likes (Received): 0

Hey, Tubeman. Im wondering, what trains where called "Bushey/Bushy trains"? Trains to Shepards Bush or the trains planned to go to Bushey Heath?
__________________
Sweet home Stockholm!
London Underground no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2010, 07:31 PM   #4187
Dobbo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,459
Likes (Received): 270

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Hi Dobbo

Crossrail impact:

I'd certainly expect an appreciable relief to the Central, Bakerloo, Northern half of the Circle, Jubilee and Piccadilly Lines, the Central is a no-brainer and I'd expect a dent to be made in Bakerloo usership by Crossrail taking away a lot of the Paddington > West End traffic. Likewise the Paddington > City traffic will be relieved off the Circle / H&C Lines. The Piccadilly will lose a lot of its Heathrow traffic unless BAA keep the fares to the airport inflated like with the Heathrow Express, and the Jubilee will be relieved by virtue of Crossrail serving Canary Wharf with 'better' destinations.

The remaining questions all have a similar answer:

No

I guess the best chance is for the Northern Line to Battersea, and only then if the developers pay for it.

Otherwise any form of public expenditure of the scale of a new Tube line or significant extension is out of the question at present.

Of course - i doubt that a new line would be built for at least a few years after Crossrail - so that would make a 2020 ish timeframe. Do you think the Crossrail is the new way forward for underground rail in London? i.e. mainline gague, huge capacity etc?
Dobbo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2010, 07:59 PM   #4188
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by London Underground View Post
Hey, Tubeman. Im wondering, what trains where called "Bushey/Bushy trains"? Trains to Shepards Bush or the trains planned to go to Bushey Heath?
I presume the latter if either... Bit of a random question, what prompted it?

The Bakerloo Line used to serve Bushey station en route to Watford Junction, and this would have been the destination for trains stabling in Croxley Depot... So I guess Bakerloo trains used to show a 'Bushey' destination at times?
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2010, 08:10 PM   #4189
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobbo View Post
Of course - i doubt that a new line would be built for at least a few years after Crossrail - so that would make a 2020 ish timeframe. Do you think the Crossrail is the new way forward for underground rail in London? i.e. mainline gague, huge capacity etc?
Yes, personally I think this is definitely the way forwards... I think LU expansion should be limited to a couple of extensions to improve efficiency or utilise unused capacity (e.g. Bakerloo southern extension) with the focus on line / station upgrades.

Any significant infrastructure investment in terms of new tunnels should be crossrail-type projects linking existing suburban routes to one another.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2010, 08:28 PM   #4190
sotonsi
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,563

I think Chelney ought to be tube, if a crossrail will remove Piccadilly Circus - not to have a south/central West End station is a bigger mistake than not having big trains. Also relieving the Central (which Crossrail fails to do completely (note - not "completely fails to do"), especially with only 12tph due to the branching), by taking another branch, is needed, ditto relieving Crossrail between Stratford and central London - Epping needs to be on Chelney, with a cross-platform interchange at Leytonstone for Hainualt traffic - AFAICS, this isn't on Crossrail 2 proposals, which seem to be about other routes in the north.

However, other than Chelney, I feel we should be going with more crossrail type lines, with the exception of extensions of existing ones.
sotonsi no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2010, 08:42 PM   #4191
London Underground
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 107
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
I presume the latter if either... Bit of a random question, what prompted it?

The Bakerloo Line used to serve Bushey station en route to Watford Junction, and this would have been the destination for trains stabling in Croxley Depot... So I guess Bakerloo trains used to show a 'Bushey' destination at times?
Thanks for the info.
What prombted it was that i was looking through abbandoned stations and the northern heights plan, and started thinking of a comment on my "History of the London Underground" video.
They where filming at Wood Lane when they said it.
__________________
Sweet home Stockholm!
London Underground no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 17th, 2010, 09:27 PM   #4192
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by London Underground View Post
Thanks for the info.
What prombted it was that i was looking through abbandoned stations and the northern heights plan, and started thinking of a comment on my "History of the London Underground" video.
They where filming at Wood Lane when they said it.
I guess it must have been reference to the Edgware - Bushey Heath extension... I've never heard 'Bushy / Bushey' used in connection with Shepherd's Bush before, not even colloquially.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2010, 12:36 PM   #4193
Dobbo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,459
Likes (Received): 270

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Yes, personally I think this is definitely the way forwards... I think LU expansion should be limited to a couple of extensions to improve efficiency or utilise unused capacity (e.g. Bakerloo southern extension) with the focus on line / station upgrades.

Any significant infrastructure investment in terms of new tunnels should be crossrail-type projects linking existing suburban routes to one another.
Cheers. Would this have an effect on the station locations as stated by sotonsi? How could a mainline gague not fit in at Piccadilly Circus - could you not go under the three existing lines?

On an aside - interesting about the runaway train on the Northern... it sounds almost as though it was rolling downhill all the way!
Dobbo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 18th, 2010, 06:04 PM   #4194
London Underground
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 107
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
I guess it must have been reference to the Edgware - Bushey Heath extension... I've never heard 'Bushy / Bushey' used in connection with Shepherd's Bush before, not even colloquially.
Ok. Thanks, Tubeman.
__________________
Sweet home Stockholm!
London Underground no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2010, 03:08 PM   #4195
kleinhond
Registered User
 
kleinhond's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: www.southeastcentral.co.uk
Posts: 279
Likes (Received): 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobbo View Post
Cheers. Would this have an effect on the station locations as stated by sotonsi? How could a mainline gague not fit in at Piccadilly Circus - could you not go under the three existing lines?
Yeah, I've never quite understood this either.
__________________
Eat from the bushy plate.
kleinhond no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 19th, 2010, 07:35 PM   #4196
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobbo View Post
Cheers. Would this have an effect on the station locations as stated by sotonsi? How could a mainline gague not fit in at Piccadilly Circus - could you not go under the three existing lines?
It's not an engineering issue... it's just that stations at Piccadilly Circus and Tottenham Court Road would be too close together once you factor in 12 car platforms, and also the fact that the current concourse and entrances for Piccadilly Circus are not adequate to cope with the additional traffic... hence every Crossrail 1 / LU interchange station is seeing a huge redevelopment in consequence to allow for the huge increase in entries / exits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobbo View Post
On an aside - interesting about the runaway train on the Northern... it sounds almost as though it was rolling downhill all the way!
It was!
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 20th, 2010, 01:55 AM   #4197
WatcherZero
Registered User
 
WatcherZero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 19,602

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Yes, personally I think this is definitely the way forwards... I think LU expansion should be limited to a couple of extensions to improve efficiency or utilise unused capacity (e.g. Bakerloo southern extension) with the focus on line / station upgrades.

Any significant infrastructure investment in terms of new tunnels should be crossrail-type projects linking existing suburban routes to one another.
There was some group recently calling for all Londons main rail terminus to be joined by Crossrail style connections to allow proper through services for the city and to integrate heavy rail better.
WatcherZero no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 20th, 2010, 12:31 PM   #4198
Dobbo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,459
Likes (Received): 270

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
It's not an engineering issue... it's just that stations at Piccadilly Circus and Tottenham Court Road would be too close together once you factor in 12 car platforms, and also the fact that the current concourse and entrances for Piccadilly Circus are not adequate to cope with the additional traffic... hence every Crossrail 1 / LU interchange station is seeing a huge redevelopment in consequence to allow for the huge increase in entries / exits.
Would it not be possible to have a joint station? e.g. exit towards the front of a north-east train would be TCR and rear fr PC? (assuming i have my geography right!)
Dobbo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 20th, 2010, 05:06 PM   #4199
CairnsTony
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Cairns, Qld.
Posts: 242
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
There was some group recently calling for all Londons main rail terminus to be joined by Crossrail style connections to allow proper through services for the city and to integrate heavy rail better.
I guess, roughly speaking, CR1 joins Paddington with Liverpool Street (though not all services of course...); CR2 could potentially link services btw Victoria and Kings Cross. I've also heard it mooted that a CR3 could link Waterloo services with Euston; and whilst we're in the realms of fantasy, how about a CR4 linking ChX and Marleybone? A shorter link could perhaps join Cannon St with Moorgate. Well maybe not in my lifetime...
CairnsTony no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old August 22nd, 2010, 12:28 PM   #4200
Tubeman
Jubilation
 
Tubeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London SE15
Posts: 18,973
Likes (Received): 3272

I'd love to see a Crossrail that 'does' something with the C2C route... The attraction being that the entire C2C network feeds along 2 tracks between Barking and just outside Fenchurch Street, so putting it underground could completely remove the need for Fenchurch Street station. Ideally, at the other end the tunnel would connect with the Chiltern route into Marylebone and thus completely overtake that network, but it would entail a lot of investment in terms of electrification... Potentially all the way to Kidderminster if service patterns remain the same. Would also allow the Met to be cut back to Watford / Uxbridge only and full segregation between NR and LU along the 4-track section Watford South Junction to Harrow-on-the-hill.

Maybe electrification could initially just take place to Aylesbury (both routes), with longer-distance trains to Banbury and Birmingham remaining diesel and working via the original GWR Birmingham main line from South Ruislip to Old Oak Common and thence to Paddington (I guess Crossrail 1 will free up some platform capacity at Paddington).

Between Fenchurch St and Marylebone the tunnel section could serve Bank (with Fenchurch St closed completely), City Thameslink, Tottenham Court Road and Baker Street (with Marylebone NR closing completely).

A pretty useful cross-London route with good City and West End station locations, relatively short tunnel (compared to Crossrail 1 and 2), interchanges with Crossrails 1, 2 and Thameslink, and a growing hinterland with towns like Basildon, High Wycombe, Aylesbury, Grays and Southend served.
Tubeman no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
london, railways, tube

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:05 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium