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Old September 10th, 2010, 03:18 PM   #4221
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Hello once again, Joe!

I just read on wikipedia that there are plans to sell the D78s abroad when they are retired. Do you know where?

Any chance we'll see some in Stockholm?
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Old September 10th, 2010, 03:27 PM   #4222
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Wow, i didn't know that Sweden can't afford new trains and buys a used one.
But maybe i am wrong?
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Old September 10th, 2010, 05:13 PM   #4223
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I'd love to see a Crossrail that 'does' something with the C2C route... The attraction being that the entire C2C network feeds along 2 tracks between Barking and just outside Fenchurch Street, so putting it underground could completely remove the need for Fenchurch Street station. Ideally, at the other end the tunnel would connect with the Chiltern route into Marylebone and thus completely overtake that network, but it would entail a lot of investment in terms of electrification... Potentially all the way to Kidderminster if service patterns remain the same. Would also allow the Met to be cut back to Watford / Uxbridge only and full segregation between NR and LU along the 4-track section Watford South Junction to Harrow-on-the-hill.

Maybe electrification could initially just take place to Aylesbury (both routes), with longer-distance trains to Banbury and Birmingham remaining diesel and working via the original GWR Birmingham main line from South Ruislip to Old Oak Common and thence to Paddington (I guess Crossrail 1 will free up some platform capacity at Paddington).

Between Fenchurch St and Marylebone the tunnel section could serve Bank (with Fenchurch St closed completely), City Thameslink, Tottenham Court Road and Baker Street (with Marylebone NR closing completely).

A pretty useful cross-London route with good City and West End station locations, relatively short tunnel (compared to Crossrail 1 and 2), interchanges with Crossrails 1, 2 and Thameslink, and a growing hinterland with towns like Basildon, High Wycombe, Aylesbury, Grays and Southend served.
You're thinking too small! Join up all the termini! In your face, Paris!

Crossrail 1 (W-E): Reading - Paddington - Liverpool Street - Colchester
Crossrail 2 (N-S): Bedford - St Pancras - London Bridge - Brighton
Crossrail 3 (NW-SE): Milton Keynes - Euston - Victoria - Hastings
Crossrail 4 (NE-SW): Cambridge - Kings Cross - Waterloo - Southampton
Crossrail 5 (Tubey special): Aylesbury - Marylebone - Fenchurch Street - Southend

Hang on, there's a couple left - we can join Cannon Street to Moorgate and... oh, what about Charing Cross? Arse.
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Old September 10th, 2010, 05:54 PM   #4224
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Wow, i didn't know that Sweden can't afford new trains and buys a used one.
But maybe i am wrong?
You are wrong. Look at the new rolling stock for SJ as well as the new tram purchases Stockholm made and the fact the new C30 trains will be announced soon for Stockholm too. Worry not, new trains they will be.
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Old September 10th, 2010, 06:21 PM   #4225
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Wow, i didn't know that Sweden can't afford new trains and buys a used one.
But maybe i am wrong?
I was just asking!
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Old September 11th, 2010, 01:07 AM   #4226
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You are wrong. Look at the new rolling stock for SJ as well as the new tram purchases Stockholm made and the fact the new C30 trains will be announced soon for Stockholm too. Worry not, new trains they will be.
Sorry and thank you for an explanation.
Now i wonder, how the C30 cars will look like? Are there any pictures with them?
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Old September 11th, 2010, 01:08 AM   #4227
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I was just asking!
I am sorry, if i missunderstood your question.
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Old September 11th, 2010, 01:25 AM   #4228
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Well, no harm done really.

I also wonder what the C30 cars will look like. Probably like the X60 commuter trains.
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Old September 11th, 2010, 11:17 AM   #4229
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An incident (probably over dramatised) has been reported where a train that had "turned" at Plaistow proceeded westwards on the eastbound line.

My recollection is that a train that turns there leaves the station on the eastbound line and then crosses over, so presumably the signal cleared with the crossover points set wrongly.

Shouldn't that be prevented by interlocking?
Yes, in a word.

It was a very unusual signal irregularity.

This is an old diagram of Plaistow's layout; the top pair of tracks are the 'slow' (= District Line) and the bottom pair the 'fast' (= NwR C2C). The signal numbers have been changed since, and the crossover between the 'fast' roads and the one between the down slow and down fast have gone, as have the sidings toward West Ham. You can see the 'bay' platform on the north side of Plaistow station, which is the current layout with the crossover between eastbound (down) and westbound (up) further west.

[IMG]http://i53.************/23wnrwg.jpg[/IMG]

The H&C train got a clear signal to depart westbound from the bay (marked as P64 on the diagram, but now it's something else... The cabin code's FC now if I remember correctly), and so the train departed as normal under clear signals which should then take the train across the eastbound road onto the westbound. For some reason the second set of points it crossed (the facing points of the eastbound to westbound crossover) were still in the 'normal' position (i.e. set for through running) rather than thrown across to the 'reverse' position, so the train started proceeding the wrong direction along the eastbound road, toward a train stood at the outer home signal between West Ham and Plaistow. It would have happened at low speed, and the driver realised immediately and stopped her train, so it was by no means a near miss.

The issue is, if the bay platform starting signal gives a green aspect, then this should be assurance that all the points ahead are correctly set to send the train over to the westbound due to interlocking as you rightly say. I really don't know what happened here because interlocking is a very simple and reliable system to prevent conflicting train movements.

I can only suspect that there is a link between this and the new central reversing siding being commissioned between West Ham and Plaistow... I assume an error has been made regarding the associated resignalling works leading to this anomaly (which was able to be recreated after this incident by technicians).
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Old September 11th, 2010, 11:23 AM   #4230
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Hello once again, Joe!

I just read on wikipedia that there are plans to sell the D78s abroad when they are retired. Do you know where?

Any chance we'll see some in Stockholm?
News to me, although it makes sense as they're highly reliable and will still be very presentable when retired in a few years time.

I'd expect any number of railway networks in the developing world would happily snap them up. The only issue is conversion of the receiving system to 4th rail, or conversion of the trains to 3rd... the former is probably the best option, as the D Stocks already run over 3rd rail-compatible lines between Gunnersbury and Richmond and Putney Bridge and East Putney, all that is required is a dummy 'Negative' (central) conductor rail bonded to the running rail.
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Old September 11th, 2010, 02:00 PM   #4231
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News to me, although it makes sense as they're highly reliable and will still be very presentable when retired in a few years time.

I'd expect any number of railway networks in the developing world would happily snap them up. The only issue is conversion of the receiving system to 4th rail, or conversion of the trains to 3rd... the former is probably the best option, as the D Stocks already run over 3rd rail-compatible lines between Gunnersbury and Richmond and Putney Bridge and East Putney, all that is required is a dummy 'Negative' (central) conductor rail bonded to the running rail.
So, it is possible, but most likley we will not see them here? Ok. Thanks.
But... When exactly will they be retired? 2015?
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Old September 12th, 2010, 02:07 PM   #4232
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It'll be spread over a couple of years, with a new S Stock turning up roughly every fortnight and consequent withdrawal of D Stock, so between 2013-2015 I guess
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Old September 12th, 2010, 03:47 PM   #4233
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Are there many standard gauge third rail networks that would buy secondhand trains? The only ones I can think of offhand are one of the Buenos Aires lines, which has old trains from Tokyo, and the Pyongyang metro, which has 1950s vintage stock from Berlin.
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Old September 13th, 2010, 06:38 PM   #4234
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I'm pretty sure Merseyrail & the third rail South East commuter network are of the same gauage as the London Underground (standard gauge). Not sure if the old Underground stock would be seen as an improvement on anything they're already got mind, although Merseyrail's trains are almost life expired and becoming an increasing maintentence pain.
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Old September 13th, 2010, 06:58 PM   #4235
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I'd expect any number of railway networks in the developing world would happily snap them up. The only issue is conversion of the receiving system to 4th rail, or conversion of the trains to 3rd... the former is probably the best option, as the D Stocks already run over 3rd rail-compatible lines between Gunnersbury and Richmond and Putney Bridge and East Putney, all that is required is a dummy 'Negative' (central) conductor rail bonded to the running rail.
Island Line's 1938 stock got modified slightly, rather than the track, which remains 3 rails.
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Old September 19th, 2010, 12:59 PM   #4236
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Im trying to get my head around the £100m mobile phone network installation.
Its described as a long snaking transmitter along the tunnel ceiling and aerials installed in tube cars.

So what their going for is having minicells on the tube cars fed by a private connection with the tunnel ceiling reciever, what about stations?
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Old September 19th, 2010, 06:10 PM   #4237
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Im trying to get my head around the £100m mobile phone network installation.
Its described as a long snaking transmitter along the tunnel ceiling and aerials installed in tube cars.

So what their going for is having minicells on the tube cars fed by a private connection with the tunnel ceiling reciever, what about stations?
Normally mobile phone coverage in tunnels is through what is called leaky coax. Basically a coax cable is run along the tunnel and takes the signal to a base station. No need for micro cells in the carriages.

LU already uses leaky coax for their own communications, so one would assume it would be trivial to install more for mobile phone coverage. But alas this is the UK where everything takes 3 times as long and costs double due to health and safety reasons.
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Old September 20th, 2010, 12:01 AM   #4238
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Originally Posted by WatcherZero View Post
Im trying to get my head around the £100m mobile phone network installation.
Its described as a long snaking transmitter along the tunnel ceiling and aerials installed in tube cars.

So what their going for is having minicells on the tube cars fed by a private connection with the tunnel ceiling reciever, what about stations?
Do you know something I don't?

As far as I am aware there are no 'live' plans to install any sort of public access mobile communications system in our tunnels. The infrastructure is all there for the 'Connect' system, so for example I can get out my portable radio deep underground and make a call to any other portable, base station, or internal 'auto' telephone, but as far as I know that's it... The system is for internal and Emergency service use only.

I don't see why additional aerials would be needed in tube cars for a theoretical system... The Connect system is split into cells (the boundary being halfway between each station) and seems to work perfectly well.
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Old September 20th, 2010, 08:04 PM   #4239
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Boris Johnson, the mayor of London, has revealed more about his plans to kit out the London Underground with a mobile phone signal, announcing that he wants mobile operators to bear all the costs of the installation.

City Hall explained last week that it would not push the cost of getting the Tube mobile-ready to the tax payer, with Johnson preferring that the five big mobile phone operators - Vodafone, Orange, O2, T-Mobile and 3 – would spread the cost of the project.

Modest proposal

Although no solution has been finalised, according to City AM, the Greater London Authority has said that a solution: "remains dependent on the market providing a credible proposal that satisfies both technical and commercial considerations".

According to the Sunday Telegraph http://redirectingat.com/?id=92X363&...k-plans-717956 , Johnson is hoping to have phone reception installed in the tube network before the 2012 Olympics, something which was also outlined in the Digital Britain report.

Last June, however, it was decided by Transport for London that allowing mobile phones to work underground was not "financially viable".

Considering that there's been a promise of decent air conditioning in carriages for what seems like forever, we are not exactly holding our breath that we will soon be able to phone folks from under the paving slabs of Baker Street any time soon.




Read more: http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-...#ixzz105eRiFnm
Started by Sunday Telegraph article, this is an article from a site picking up on the story.

Quote:
Boris Johnson forces phone firms to share Tube costs
The UK's biggest mobile phone companies – including Vodafone and O2 – are to share the £100m-plus cost of installing and maintaining a mobile phone signal across the London Underground network after Boris Johnson, the Mayor of London, personally intervened. The cost, which is expected to run into hundreds of millions of pounds, will be covered by the main five operators; the others being Orange, T-Mobile and 3.

The Sunday Telegraph understands that Mr Johnson is preparing to announce that virtually all of the City's Tube network will have mobile phone reception by the 2012 Olympics.
Plans to extend mobile coverage to the Underground have been discussed for years, but have yet to prove fruitful because of prohibitively high costs.

However, Mr Johnson is believed to have taken it upon himself to "bash heads together in the mobile phone industry" to ensure the plan goes ahead this time.

Coverage will be provided by a very long transmitter snaking along the top of the Tube's tunnels, with antennas placed on the ends of each carriage.

It is further understood that Mr Johnson is also pushing for mobile coverage for Eurostar services.
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Old September 21st, 2010, 12:31 AM   #4240
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I saw a snippet in the paper today too...

Well yes not a penny should come out of the public purse... It's a vehicle to make the mobile companies money, end of story.
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