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Old December 9th, 2010, 01:15 PM   #4301
Tubeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiaM View Post
Well, I'm known for making things sound a lot more complicated than they are when I'm trying to explain something (especially the first times). An image says more than a thousand words:

image hosted on flickr
Ah yes I get it now... a picture does indeed paint a thousand words.

An interesting idea, but I guess grossly unpopular with customers! For instance, anyone living on the western branches of the District Line wishing to travel in to the West End or City would have to change at High St Ken and cross over the footbridge to the Circle Line to continue their journey, really inconvenient.
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Old December 9th, 2010, 11:35 PM   #4302
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Ah! Very interesting. Thank you. Every time I pass it seems to be there. I suppose it drowns out the sound of some of the more ignorant conversations!
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Old December 10th, 2010, 06:03 PM   #4303
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It's probably railhead corrugation, and is fixed by a visit from the rail grinding train.

Corrugation forms on curved sections with high speeds where the wheels begin oscillating gently from side to side, with each passing train wearing the same pattern into the railhead which in turn guides the next train's wheels to follow the same pattern of oscillation, so the unevenness (and noise) gets worse and worse.

The rail grinding train (incidentally this was the train that rolled away on the Northern Line and nearly caused a disaster a few months back) visits the whole network in rotation and grinds the railhead back into an even shape, giving a smoother, quieter ride. Obviously this can't be done again and again or there'd be no rail left, so eventually re-railing is required every few years.
You're welcome davidaiow

Here's a photo of railhead corrugation:

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Old December 22nd, 2010, 08:57 PM   #4304
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Hi Tubeman.

How many emergency exits are there on The Underground, outside of the stations themselves? I've seen some odd looking buildings with signs in Johnston Sans, and was wondering if there was any rhyme or reason as to where they are and how frequently (and where) you'd find them.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 02:43 PM   #4305
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Hi Tubeman.

How many emergency exits are there on The Underground, outside of the stations themselves? I've seen some odd looking buildings with signs in Johnston Sans, and was wondering if there was any rhyme or reason as to where they are and how frequently (and where) you'd find them.
I think there are intervention points halfway between each Jubilee Line extension tunnel station to allow evacuation if necessary, but I think these are the only purpose-built ones. There are other locations with street access to tunnels, but these are all as far as I'm aware simply the locations of closed stations / station entrances. In addition, you'll see some LU electricity substations at street level, for instance there's one immediately north of 'Suicide Bridge' over the A1 between Archway and Highgate, so the building has Johnson font signage on it as it's LU property.

There are a few air shafts too, which may have ladders down to track level for inspection / maintenance... I think there's a few on the Victoria Line, and there's definitely one down to the very end of the Bakerloo Line beyond Elephant & Castle (where the over-run sidings end on the abandoned Camberwell extension), as it was being used for access to trains in the sidings by graffiti 'artists'.
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Old December 23rd, 2010, 04:33 PM   #4306
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hi all ...

http://api.photoshop.com/home_6c5a1e...ff33b5d8754923

Just wondering if my map above ^ needs any amendments or updates ? ...

any comments for how it looks at the moment ?

thanks, chris
I think I like this version better than your later 'rail connections' map, which doesn't mark the stations as well, or have the proposed Northern Line extension to Battersea and beyond... though you probably should place Nine Elms station west of Vauxhall...
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Old December 24th, 2010, 02:40 PM   #4307
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There are other locations with street access to tunnels, but these are all as far as I'm aware simply the locations of closed stations / station entrances.
... or in atleast one case never even opened :

http://underground-history.co.uk/bullbush.php
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Old December 24th, 2010, 06:41 PM   #4308
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... or in atleast one case never even opened :

http://underground-history.co.uk/bullbush.php
Learn a new thing every day... I didn't know they'd built access stairs here!
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Old December 25th, 2010, 12:33 PM   #4309
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Hi.
Are the reverser keys personal, as i just read about the final day of 59-stock opperations and the authosr said "...my reverser key instead of his own"?
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Old December 25th, 2010, 02:06 PM   #4310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
I think there are intervention points halfway between each Jubilee Line extension tunnel station to allow evacuation if necessary, but I think these are the only purpose-built ones. There are other locations with street access to tunnels, but these are all as far as I'm aware simply the locations of closed stations / station entrances. In addition, you'll see some LU electricity substations at street level, for instance there's one immediately north of 'Suicide Bridge' over the A1 between Archway and Highgate, so the building has Johnson font signage on it as it's LU property.

There are a few air shafts too, which may have ladders down to track level for inspection / maintenance... I think there's a few on the Victoria Line, and there's definitely one down to the very end of the Bakerloo Line beyond Elephant & Castle (where the over-run sidings end on the abandoned Camberwell extension), as it was being used for access to trains in the sidings by graffiti 'artists'.
Thanks Tubeman, I'd assume the cut and cover lines just have open sections here and there, where the vents for the deep level must be a little more thought out.
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Old December 26th, 2010, 01:47 PM   #4311
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Hi.
Are the reverser keys personal, as i just read about the final day of 59-stock opperations and the authosr said "...my reverser key instead of his own"?
The RKL220 key used on modern stocks (D Stock and later) are personal issue, but on older stocks (as was the case with 1959 stocks) effectively you'd get a new set of keys every time you were relieved in a platform, because to remove the keys from a train you'd need to shut it down and on older stocks it took a couple of minutes to 'open up' a train again. So every time you were relieved in a platform, the relieving driver would simply hand you a set of keys (Control and Reverser). The same applied when Guards relieved each other (the Guard's key would change hands), but that was just laziness really as the only effect of removing the Guard's key was to make the guard's panel go dead.

So in short, it doesn't make sense for a 1959 stock driver to refer to their 'own' reverser key, as usually a couple of different reverser keys would pass through your hands every day.
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Old December 26th, 2010, 06:44 PM   #4312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
The RKL220 key used on modern stocks (D Stock and later) are personal issue, but on older stocks (as was the case with 1959 stocks) effectively you'd get a new set of keys every time you were relieved in a platform, because to remove the keys from a train you'd need to shut it down and on older stocks it took a couple of minutes to 'open up' a train again.
Interesting!

Today many (atleast in rail forums in Sweden) blame "the computers" when there is a discussion about that it takes so long to activate ('open up') a train...
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Old December 26th, 2010, 09:22 PM   #4313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
The RKL220 key used on modern stocks (D Stock and later) are personal issue, but on older stocks (as was the case with 1959 stocks) effectively you'd get a new set of keys every time you were relieved in a platform, because to remove the keys from a train you'd need to shut it down and on older stocks it took a couple of minutes to 'open up' a train again. So every time you were relieved in a platform, the relieving driver would simply hand you a set of keys (Control and Reverser). The same applied when Guards relieved each other (the Guard's key would change hands), but that was just laziness really as the only effect of removing the Guard's key was to make the guard's panel go dead.
Interesting indeed, MiaM. I had no idea.

Quote:
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So in short, it doesn't make sense for a 1959 stock driver to refer to their 'own' reverser key, as usually a couple of different reverser keys would pass through your hands every day.
Maybe, just maybe since this was the last journey he might have "borrowed" a set of keys? Oh well.
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Old January 3rd, 2011, 02:45 PM   #4314
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Tubeman! Hope you had a good festive break.

I received your railway atlas for Christmas... what an awesome piece of work! On the other hand I think my missus may be having second thoughts now.

One question - The insert from page 22 found on page 54. What is the purpose of the new (2011) tunnel running from the main line under the former KX railway lands to St Pancras? Is this for the future extension of Thamelink up through Finsbury Park? Where can I find info about it?

Page 12 made me very sad - I live near the former Stroud Green station.

A
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Old January 4th, 2011, 12:52 AM   #4315
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Hi! Glad you liked it

Yes the '2011' tunnel is for the future expansion of Thameslink up the ECML. Don't think 2011's going to happen now! It's actually now going to be 2018 I think. For what it's worth the entire tunnel, including 'flying' junction at St Pancras Thameslink (visible just north of the station from a train) has been built, and the portal can clearly be seen at the northern end of the tunnel on Google maps (satellite). Just needs tracks and wires.

According to the Thameslink programme website, the reason why it's not been connected yet is because London Bridge won't be able to cope with the additional trains until it's been remodelled in 2018.

My sister lives very close to Stroud Green station too... Ossian Road (off Ferme Park Road)... Nice area!
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Old January 4th, 2011, 04:11 PM   #4316
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Hi! Glad you liked it

Yes the '2011' tunnel is for the future expansion of Thameslink up the ECML. Don't think 2011's going to happen now! It's actually now going to be 2018 I think. For what it's worth the entire tunnel, including 'flying' junction at St Pancras Thameslink (visible just north of the station from a train) has been built, and the portal can clearly be seen at the northern end of the tunnel on Google maps (satellite). Just needs tracks and wires.

According to the Thameslink programme website, the reason why it's not been connected yet is because London Bridge won't be able to cope with the additional trains until it's been remodelled in 2018.

My sister lives very close to Stroud Green station too... Ossian Road (off Ferme Park Road)... Nice area!

Ah thanks for that. Yes I noticed the portal (I've been following the KX railway lands redevelopment very closely) and referred to your atlas to work it out what it was...

I'm just up Ferme Park road from Ossian, on Mount View. Have you ever walked the Parkland Walk? Beautiful, buit also heartbreaking...

B
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Old January 4th, 2011, 06:21 PM   #4317
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Ah thanks for that. Yes I noticed the portal (I've been following the KX railway lands redevelopment very closely) and referred to your atlas to work it out what it was...

I'm just up Ferme Park road from Ossian, on Mount View. Have you ever walked the Parkland Walk? Beautiful, buit also heartbreaking...

B
Never walked the entire length, but have walked bits of it. It is gutting, the fact that there are even LT cable runs and an electricity substation installed is galling... LT trains even used to trundle along the line until 1970, pulled by battery locos between the Northern and Northern City Lines... So near and yet so far
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Old January 4th, 2011, 09:24 PM   #4318
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Quote:
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According to the Thameslink programme website, the reason why it's not been connected yet is because London Bridge won't be able to cope with the additional trains until it's been remodelled in 2018
How did they come up with that idea?

As London Bridge obviously can handle todays peak TPH today, adding the ECML-Thameslink would make it possible to run ECML-Thameslink in off-peak hours. (I assume that there isn't a lot of continous maintenance work going on at London Bridge at evere off-peak moment...).

I believe that doing such things is a good way to create political opinion for making more investments in the railways - that could perhaps make railway investment money available earlier.


P.S. how come London Bridge can't cope with more trains? I thought that Farringdon, City Thameslink, St. Pancras Thameslink and perhaps Blackfriars that would be the bottleneck as all those stations (perhaps except Blackfriars) only have one platform for each direction. Is the problem that London Bridge has far more passengers, or is the problem in reality somewhere east of London Bridge?
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Old January 4th, 2011, 10:51 PM   #4319
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As London Bridge obviously can handle todays peak TPH today,
Barely...hence why Thameslink trains avoid it
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Is the problem that London Bridge has far more passengers, or is the problem in reality somewhere east of London Bridge?
West of London Bridge, at London Bridge and east of London Bridge.

West - Thameslink trains share tracks with Charing Cross trains. This makes those tracks the busiest 2-track mainline railway in the world (IIRC) and certainly at frequencies that's equal to, or even higher than, the District or Met lines on their shared bits with the circle line. They are building the expensive and controversial Borough Market Viaduct to move the Charing Cross trains onto new tracks.

At - there's only 6 through tracks (5 through platforms) - 3 for Cannon Street, 2 for Charing Cross and Blackfriars. Even if the new Borough Market viaduct was open, you still would have serious problems with increasing Thameslink frequency. The main point of the rebuild is to swap some terminating platforms for through ones. And no that isn't easy, due to different levels and all sorts. IIRC, Cannon Street will be reduced to 2 platforms, and thus able to turn less trains accordingly.

East - lots of flat junctions that Thameslink trains would have to cross other trains' paths on the flat. They will build some grade-separation, so that the major conflicts are removed.
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Old January 4th, 2011, 11:03 PM   #4320
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It then begs the question why it was only suddenly realised that London Bridge was a bottleneck?
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