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Old February 22nd, 2011, 05:55 PM   #4381
CharlieP
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Hi Tubey - on page 22 of the second edition of your magnum opus there appears to be a disused line running to the north of Moorgate and a greyed-out rectangle between Broad Street and the Central line, but neither appears in the detail maps on pages 55 or 59.

What are these?
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Old February 22nd, 2011, 11:06 PM   #4382
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Projected Crossrail route with Moorgate / Liverpool St platforms, it's now 'under construction', so solid in the 3rd edition

I left it off the zoomed-on maps of Liverpool St / Broad St and the East City for clarity's sake last time around, but now it's really being built, it'll appear throughout.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 12:48 PM   #4383
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Quote:
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Projected Crossrail route with Moorgate / Liverpool St platforms, it's now 'under construction', so solid in the 3rd edition
The what now? When's that coming out then?
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Old February 24th, 2011, 10:46 PM   #4384
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Quote:
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The what now? When's that coming out then?
I'm about halfway through, so I'm aiming for the Christmas 2011 market.

I'm re-drawing the lot, traced over satellite images for much better accuracy (the images then deleted for copyright reasons). Accurate scale on each page, all dates converted from YYYY to DD/MM/YYYY format, and expanded coverage (slightly, now out to Slough, Windsor, Tilbury, Redhill, Ebbsfleet). Going to include some more new maps, e.g. electrification and gauge evolution, plus a gazetteer railway company by railway company of route opening in chronological order.

It will be the railway atlas to end all railway atlases... Then I'm moving on to Liverpool + Manchester next, with South Wales, West Yorkshire, Glasgow and other complex areas each with their own volume, and finally a national atlas to fill in the rest. That'll be my life's work
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Old February 25th, 2011, 02:45 PM   #4385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
I'm about halfway through, so I'm aiming for the Christmas 2011 market.
Want.

Quote:
all dates converted from YYYY to DD/MM/YYYY format
Not YYYY-MM-DD format?
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Old February 25th, 2011, 05:25 PM   #4386
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Quote:
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Want.
Will sort you out a signed copy

Quote:
Not YYYY-MM-DD format?
I'm not a fan... the excellent website CULG (Clives Underground Lines Guide) uses this format and I just don't like it, we're so used to seeing DD/MM/YYYY in day-to-day life that the reverse is a bit confusing, especially if the DD is a number 12 or less, I find myself having to put effort into interpreting the date.
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Old February 25th, 2011, 07:31 PM   #4387
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Will sort you out a signed copy
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Old February 25th, 2011, 08:18 PM   #4388
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...But it does mean I'll need to get your address, so I may turn out to be a psycho stalker
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Old February 25th, 2011, 10:08 PM   #4389
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Those posts showing the northern portal of the Snow Hill tunnel have got me thinking. Going back to look at Tubeman's diagrams of the area, there's a lot of land that's being opened up as part of the works that I suspect could have been used differently at track level without impinging on their eventual purposes.

Given the scale of the works involved, I wonder if it was considered to (re)build Farringdon Street's platforms (as 12 car), and then knock the lines through to Smithfield sidings. The Moorgate platforms wouldn't have then needed to be extended, and as such the branch could have been kept operational for SSL services (I'd couple this with either a crossover west of Moorgate, a knock through of the bay platforms east of Moorgate back to the running lines under Finsbury Circus, or an extension to Liverpool St under the Circus with a knock through to the running lines east of that).

The SSL stuff aside, at the very least it would have given more robustness to the Thameslink service (as you'd have spare lines available for failed units) without needing the branch. These would be accessible from both the north as well as the south without conflicting movements if you used the centre roads as the sidings.
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Old February 26th, 2011, 11:58 AM   #4390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_jrt View Post
Those posts showing the northern portal of the Snow Hill tunnel have got me thinking. Going back to look at Tubeman's diagrams of the area, there's a lot of land that's being opened up as part of the works that I suspect could have been used differently at track level without impinging on their eventual purposes.

Given the scale of the works involved, I wonder if it was considered to (re)build Farringdon Street's platforms (as 12 car), and then knock the lines through to Smithfield sidings. The Moorgate platforms wouldn't have then needed to be extended, and as such the branch could have been kept operational for SSL services (I'd couple this with either a crossover west of Moorgate, a knock through of the bay platforms east of Moorgate back to the running lines under Finsbury Circus, or an extension to Liverpool St under the Circus with a knock through to the running lines east of that).

The SSL stuff aside, at the very least it would have given more robustness to the Thameslink service (as you'd have spare lines available for failed units) without needing the branch. These would be accessible from both the north as well as the south without conflicting movements if you used the centre roads as the sidings.
That would have been a very good idea actually (the additional Thameslink platforms at Farringdon), any excuse to demolish the hideous postmodern office block curving along Farringdon Road (which is built on the throat of Farringdon Street goods station).
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Old February 26th, 2011, 07:44 PM   #4391
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As is always the case when you start looking into an area's history...

...it's a shame the original Thameslink project was done on the cheap. With the land freed up from the demolition of the line into Holborn Viaduct, you could have widened the route to four tracks fairly easily. Combined with the suggestions made above, that would just leave a single bottleneck - Holborn Viaduct Low Level through to Smithfield sidings. Hardly insurmountable. You would then have been able to run all Blackfriars trains through, though thinking about it you'd probably need to reinstate the S-E curve to Moorgate to have somewhere to send them unless you could come up with something somewhat dramatic between Farringdon and the ECML.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 12:55 AM   #4392
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1. Speaking of date formats, I like to use DDMMMYYYY as in 03MAR2011.

2. Does anyone have a clue on what the Widened Lines west of Farringdon will be used for after Crossrail construction is completed? I think the area might allow LUL to have a third platform at Barbican. Either LUL or National Rail could have some sidings to store unused rolling stock durring the day.
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Old March 4th, 2011, 03:47 PM   #4393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cslusarc View Post
1. Speaking of date formats, I like to use DDMMMYYYY as in 03MAR2011.

2. Does anyone have a clue on what the Widened Lines west of Farringdon will be used for after Crossrail construction is completed? I think the area might allow LUL to have a third platform at Barbican. Either LUL or National Rail could have some sidings to store unused rolling stock durring the day.
They'll be physically detatched from NR because the extended Thameslink platforms at Farringdon obstruct the former junction, so they can only be of any use to LU really. There are already stabling sidings at Farringdon and 2 LU reversing bays at Moorgate, so I don't really think there's much need for either new sidings or a new reversing point... I suspect the tunnel will go to waste therefore.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 07:14 PM   #4394
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Yo Tubes, what's the oldest rolling stock in use on the National Rail lines in London? What about outside London (not really your area, I know)?
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Old March 6th, 2011, 07:27 PM   #4395
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The '38 stock on the Island line (Ryde - Shanklin) is 73 years old.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 11:32 PM   #4396
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Within London I'd hazard a guess at Class 313, 1976-77 vintage on the ECML suburban routes and GNCR. Can't think of anything older in regular use.
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Old March 8th, 2011, 02:06 AM   #4397
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I have a few questions:

Q1:
What is the reason that the East London Line overground services was extended to Highbury & Islington?

Speculaction:
Is it because H&I has better interchange possibilities than Canonbury and there isn't passengers enough to justify an extention all the way to Camden Road (or even reopining Primrose Hill)?

Q2: How it the four track section between Highbury&Islinton and a place between Caledonian Road & Bamsbury and Camden Road?

Q3: Are there any plans on reinstating the four track section around Camden Road station?

It seems strange that east of the "north of St. Pancras junction" there are four tracks, but to the west of the junction only two tracks that both NLL and a link to St. Pancras has to share.

Q4: Are there any plans on using the links between NLL and St. Pancras and/or Kings Cross for passenger services?
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Old March 8th, 2011, 10:32 AM   #4398
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A similar question - what is the link between the GOBLIN and the ECML near Harringay Rail used for?
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Old March 8th, 2011, 12:40 PM   #4399
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A similar question - what is the link between the GOBLIN and the ECML near Harringay Rail used for?
Inter-regional freight and First Capital Connect EMU stock transfer (under diesel propulsion).
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Old March 8th, 2011, 12:59 PM   #4400
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiaM View Post
I have a few questions:

Q1:
What is the reason that the East London Line overground services was extended to Highbury & Islington?

Speculaction:
Is it because H&I has better interchange possibilities than Canonbury and there isn't passengers enough to justify an extention all the way to Camden Road (or even reopining Primrose Hill)?

Q2: How it the four track section between Highbury&Islinton and a place between Caledonian Road & Bamsbury and Camden Road?

Q3: Are there any plans on reinstating the four track section around Camden Road station?

It seems strange that east of the "north of St. Pancras junction" there are four tracks, but to the west of the junction only two tracks that both NLL and a link to St. Pancras has to share.

Q4: Are there any plans on using the links between NLL and St. Pancras and/or Kings Cross for passenger services?
A1: Yes, better interchange at H&I. The reason why it goes no further (at present) is capacity; the East London Line service is completely segregated between Dalston Western Junction and H&I (dedicated to the southern pair of tracks... the northern pair are for Stratford trains and freight).

A2 & 3: Here's (to the best of my knowledge) the new layout (at the bottom)

[IMG]http://i54.************/262bjaq.jpg[/IMG]

As you can see the plan (middle) was to reinstate the 4-track section through Camden Road station (it always has bottle-necked down to 2 tracks just west of there), but I believe the bridge east of the station has deteriorated too much to be re-used and would need to be replaced. I believe that if High Speed 2 is built, this will be looked at again and the original 2-track bottle neck west of Camden Road removed, as this would form the link between HS1 and HS2. It involves a short new stretch of viaduct and some property demolition, but regardless this would result in the LOROL and freight services still being restricted to 2 tracks between Camden Road East Junction (where the link to HS1 joins) and Camden Road West Junction (where the lines to Kentish Town West and Primrose Hill diverge) as I assume the southern pair of tracks would be dedicated HS2 / HS1 link.

A4: Not to my knowledge. I've always liked the idea of using the western half of GOBLIN as a Thameslink extension to Stansted Airport, by reinstating the curve between Kentish Town and Junction Road and also the curve between South Tottenham and Tottenham Hale (and of course electrification). That means potentially you'd have the Thameslink connecting Gatwick to Luton and Stansted, and Crossrail connecting Heathrow to City Airport, so all 5 of London's airports linked to cross-London NR services interchanging at Farringdon.
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