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Old March 8th, 2011, 07:27 PM   #4401
TitanSound
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Just a quick one..

Do you know what the new part of the station building at Highbury & Islington is for? I ask because the construction boards inside and out have been taken down. When I saw inside it was a new control room being fitted with an empty space next to it. And from outside it does not look like it is an access extension.

Unless they are demolishing the current ticket office it does not make much sense!
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Old March 9th, 2011, 01:18 AM   #4402
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Just a quick one..

Do you know what the new part of the station building at Highbury & Islington is for? I ask because the construction boards inside and out have been taken down. When I saw inside it was a new control room being fitted with an empty space next to it. And from outside it does not look like it is an access extension.

Unless they are demolishing the current ticket office it does not make much sense!
Honestly don't know... Maybe an improved Control room due to football traffic, maybe with provision for the BTP? Guesswork on my part, I hasten to add.
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Old March 9th, 2011, 02:17 AM   #4403
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Quote:
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Just a quick one..

Do you know what the new part of the station building at Highbury & Islington is for? I ask because the construction boards inside and out have been taken down. When I saw inside it was a new control room being fitted with an empty space next to it. And from outside it does not look like it is an access extension.

Unless they are demolishing the current ticket office it does not make much sense!
They are building the additional control room that is now visible, and another exit/entrance, which is bricked up at the moment. The idea is to use this as the station exit, and the current entrance/exit as an entrance only, once it has been finished. This will certainly come in handy when Arsenal are playing! In the planning documents it says this will be bricked up until the secondary barriers are required.

The plans are on the council website...

https://www.islington.gov.uk/onlinep...iteria.display

Application number: P100427

It seems like a more temporary, short term solution for this horrible station, there has long been talk of redeveloping the whole station when the part of Highbury Corner is pedestrianised and the road re-routed to get rid of the roundabout and the Post Office knocked down. Who knows when this will now happen given the economic climate!

And to think this is what once stood on the site





rather than this...

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Old March 9th, 2011, 04:05 AM   #4404
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Within London I'd hazard a guess at Class 313, 1976-77 vintage on the ECML suburban routes and GNCR. Can't think of anything older in regular use.
Ok, it's out of London, but surely Chiltern's Bubble Car deserves a mention! There must also be an odd HST or two as well that are older than the late-70's ECML suburban stock. You're probably right about the ECML for the oldest NR electrics though.

If you count the lines between Harrow and Amersham as quasi-NR you could also include the Met's A-Stock, from the early 60's.

...and there's probably a few odd old diesel shunters around Old Oak too.

...and that's without even including the LUL hackjobs from withdrawn stock used for the engineering trains
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Old March 9th, 2011, 10:32 AM   #4405
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A heartbreaking loss, Leverarch.
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Old March 9th, 2011, 01:52 PM   #4406
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Thanks for your answers!!

When construction started I did think it was for additional exit/entrance capacity for the Arsenal games. But when I saw it was blocked off it made me wonder what the point was!

And I had NO idea that a building of that granduer was on the site prior to the current structure. A quick look on Wikipedia states that:

The NLR station was damaged by a V-1 flying bomb on 27 June 1944, but its main building remained in use until demolished in the 1960s during the building of the Victoria line.

A tragedy!

I have seen the plans for re-modelling Highbury corner as I live in the area and received a consultation document and I think it would make so much sense. It gets horribly cramped when busy.

It also states on Wikipedia:

Islington Borough Council is considering redeveloping the site of the current station, and Highbury Corner generally, possibly covering the North London Line tracks with an office block above the site.

Seems a bit silly to build an office block over the tracks though. The line would need to be closed to allow for construction!!
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Old March 9th, 2011, 04:24 PM   #4407
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Not necessarily! I live on Arundel Square, where they just finished a massive block of apartments on the side of the square that the NLL is on. They built a concrete platform over the tracks to extend the square, without any disruption to the line as far as I'm aware. The whole stretch of land along the north side of Highbury Station Rd seems like a bit of a waste since its only a couple minutes from Upper Street and the tube.
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Old March 9th, 2011, 07:17 PM   #4408
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Hi Tubey.

I have got just one question for you today: I just watched Ghosts in the Underground on youtube, and in one part they mention South Island Place.

What is/was SIP and what is/was it used for?
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Old March 9th, 2011, 10:47 PM   #4409
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Quote:
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A1: Yes, better interchange at H&I. The reason why it goes no further (at present) is capacity; the East London Line service is completely segregated between Dalston Western Junction and H&I (dedicated to the southern pair of tracks... the northern pair are for Stratford trains and freight).

A2 & 3: Here's (to the best of my knowledge) the new layout (at the bottom)

[IMG]http://i54.************/262bjaq.jpg[/IMG]

As you can see the plan (middle) was to reinstate the 4-track section through Camden Road station (it always has bottle-necked down to 2 tracks just west of there), but I believe the bridge east of the station has deteriorated too much to be re-used and would need to be replaced. I believe that if High Speed 2 is built, this will be looked at again and the original 2-track bottle neck west of Camden Road removed, as this would form the link between HS1 and HS2. It involves a short new stretch of viaduct and some property demolition, but regardless this would result in the LOROL and freight services still being restricted to 2 tracks between Camden Road East Junction (where the link to HS1 joins) and Camden Road West Junction (where the lines to Kentish Town West and Primrose Hill diverge) as I assume the southern pair of tracks would be dedicated HS2 / HS1 link.

A4: Not to my knowledge. I've always liked the idea of using the western half of GOBLIN as a Thameslink extension to Stansted Airport, by reinstating the curve between Kentish Town and Junction Road and also the curve between South Tottenham and Tottenham Hale (and of course electrification). That means potentially you'd have the Thameslink connecting Gatwick to Luton and Stansted, and Crossrail connecting Heathrow to City Airport, so all 5 of London's airports linked to cross-London NR services interchanging at Farringdon.
Thanks for the reply.

I assume the upper part of the track map is how it was a few years ago. But what does the lower part show?

In theory a Thameslink-Stansted service could be introduced using the connecting tracks to NLL eastwards at St. Pancras (If they are installed?) and run down the curve to London Fields station, and do a direction change there. I assume it's not worth the effort to do so.

I like the idea to connect the airports, for example it satisfies my taste for symetry , but is that a service that real people would actually use?

I understand that it would cost a lot of money but to connect Stansted to Gatwick I'd vote for a "Thameslink 2" connecting Canon Street to Liverpool Street.
(I'm not sure but probably this has already been discussed in this thread?)
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Old March 11th, 2011, 01:03 AM   #4410
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Hi Tubey.

I have got just one question for you today: I just watched Ghosts in the Underground on youtube, and in one part they mention South Island Place.

What is/was SIP and what is/was it used for?
I believe it's the pumping station halfway between Stockwell and Oval on the Northern Line, it's just about visible as it whizzes by, but more noticeable the train lurches slightly as it passes in either direction as the tracks slew toward each other as they pass the pump room on otherwise straight, fast track. There are several pumping stations dotted around the system at low points of the deep level system to remove the continual groundwater ingress.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 01:13 AM   #4411
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Thanks for the reply.

I assume the upper part of the track map is how it was a few years ago. But what does the lower part show?
(I think... )

Top: situation before recent work
Middle: aspirational situation (too expensive)
Bottom: situation now post-work

I'll ask somersetchris, he's a LOROL driver... I think we might have ended up with a hybrid between middle and bottom.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 07:18 AM   #4412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
(I think... )

Top: situation before recent work
Middle: aspirational situation (too expensive)
Bottom: situation now post-work
The picture on the wikipedia page of Caledonian Road & Barnsbury railway station shows four tracks. I don't find any info regarding when the picture was taken, but it was uploaded last summer.

I assume they didn't remove a fourth track since then

(In the

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
I'll ask somersetchris, he's a LOROL driver... I think we might have ended up with a hybrid between middle and bottom.
Thanks!

P.S. where did you find the picture in the first place?
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Old March 11th, 2011, 12:32 PM   #4413
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No, that's very recent, after the 4th was reinstated... I believe what we ended up with is a hybrid between the middle and bottom diagrams, with essentially quadruple track throughout, but the junction between quadruple and double track east not west of Camden Road platforms (because of the aforementioned dilapidated bridge).

I think the diagram was on London Reconnections somewhere, but when I tried to search for it again I couldn't find it.
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Old March 11th, 2011, 12:32 PM   #4414
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Scrub that, I've found it
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Old March 11th, 2011, 06:35 PM   #4415
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Quote:
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I believe it's the pumping station halfway between Stockwell and Oval on the Northern Line, it's just about visible as it whizzes by, but more noticeable the train lurches slightly as it passes in either direction as the tracks slew toward each other as they pass the pump room on otherwise straight, fast track. There are several pumping stations dotted around the system at low points of the deep level system to remove the continual groundwater ingress.
Thanks.

I just found something i have never seen before: A doubletrack tube tunnel, with a crossover and a station. What station is that?
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Old March 12th, 2011, 09:11 AM   #4416
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Thanks.

I just found something i have never seen before: A doubletrack tube tunnel, with a crossover and a station. What station is that?
Formerly Stockwell, Angel, Clapham Common and Euston (Bank Branch), all were termini of the City & South London Railway at some point, but none have this arrangement remaining (i.e. with the crossover), and only Clapham Common retains the double-track station tunnel with an island platform (as does Clapham North, but this was never a terminus nor had a crossover to my knowledge). King William Street (the original northern terminus) had the same arrangement also.

The portion hosting the crossovers beyond the respective platforms would have been used for platform extension during the 1922-24 tunnel widening / platform lengthening of the CSLR, the crossovers were no longer required at Euston and Clapham Common (the 1922 termini) as the line was extended beyond these two stations to Camden Town and Morden respectively.

The original 1900's station bores remain at Angel and Euston, hosting the southbound track and extra wide platforms. Stockwell is in situ but trains just run through as the station was relocated slightly south with side platforms giving cross-platform access to the Victoria Line when that was built. At this time, the Euston arrangement was altered with a new northbound tunnel and platform built with the original northbound tunnel becoming a long siding connecting the new northbound and original southbound tunnels ('Euston Loop', long enough to accommodate 1 train).

Angel was finally tackled in 1992, as the island platform was becoming dangerously crowded, so a new northbound tunnel and platform were built.

Original Angel (post-1924 platform lengthening)... the crossover would have been at the far end of the platform:



Current arrangement at Euston (Bank branch only), the truncated stub of the former northbound track is apparent, along with the diversion to the south:



Euston (Bank branch) in 1950, before the Victoria Line work re-routed the northbound tunnel:

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Old March 12th, 2011, 12:31 PM   #4417
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Thanks. I had forgoten about Angel. I had no idea those had crossovers.

Allthough i just noticed i had missed one important detail: it wasn't an island platform. It was just one platform at each side.

It can be seen at 7:47 and 8:57 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWL8c...eature=related
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Old March 12th, 2011, 12:58 PM   #4418
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Allthough i just noticed i had missed one important detail: it wasn't an island platform. It was just one platform at each side.

It can be seen at 7:47 and 8:57 here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWL8c...eature=related
Looks like Piccadilly Circus (Bakerloo) where because of the crossover you can see part of the northbound platform from a southbound train.
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Old March 12th, 2011, 01:05 PM   #4419
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Looks like Piccadilly Circus (Bakerloo) where because of the crossover you can see part of the northbound platform from a southbound train.
Yeah, that sounds about right compared to wikipedias pic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pi...ossover_01.jpg Thanks.
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Old March 12th, 2011, 07:19 PM   #4420
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Correct!

The 'scissors' crossover is now just a single crossover from southbound to northbound, however.
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