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Old June 26th, 2011, 07:15 PM   #4581
MiaM
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Would that be a problem? How many TPH would run on each of the shared tracks?
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Old June 27th, 2011, 04:04 PM   #4582
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Trains were not stopping at Buckhurst Hill this morning Eastbound, had a look on twitter for reasons why and all I could find was 'Buckhurst Hill closed due to damaged lapdog?'

Is a lapdog some sort of railway equipment?
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Old June 27th, 2011, 07:14 PM   #4583
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Quote:
There was fears that temperatures on the London Underground could reach more than 40C - 13C hotter than the legal limit for cattle to travel.
A London Underground spokesman admitted passengers would need for up to four years for new air-con trains on the Circle, District, Hammersmith & City and Metropolitan lines. Roll-out will not complete until 2016.
Bosses are also upgrading 13 ventilation shafts along the Victoria line, restoring 83 out-of-order ventilation fans across the network and has also installed portable fans.
Just thought I would post this snippet I read in the Telegraph, I was rather shocked that 83 ventilation shafts have been allowed to go out of order in the first place. Ventilation shafts are installed for a reason?! Why not use them.

Also with all this heat the Central Line becomes a no-go. Now we all long ago concluded that the trains cannot be cooled but why not the stations? Surely LU could air condition the station concourses during the summer? Also why could they not drill new shafts along deep level lines and install high speed fans blowing water-cooled air down?
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Old June 27th, 2011, 08:16 PM   #4584
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayflower232 View Post
Trains were not stopping at Buckhurst Hill this morning Eastbound, had a look on twitter for reasons why and all I could find was 'Buckhurst Hill closed due to damaged lapdog?'

Is a lapdog some sort of railway equipment?

LOL... it was damaged platform... maybe a Tweeter with defective hearing?
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Old June 27th, 2011, 08:23 PM   #4585
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayflower232 View Post
Just thought I would post this snippet I read in the Telegraph, I was rather shocked that 83 ventilation shafts have been allowed to go out of order in the first place. Ventilation shafts are installed for a reason?! Why not use them.

Also with all this heat the Central Line becomes a no-go. Now we all long ago concluded that the trains cannot be cooled but why not the stations? Surely LU could air condition the station concourses during the summer? Also why could they not drill new shafts along deep level lines and install high speed fans blowing water-cooled air down?
I'm unsure exactly what types of shaft are being referred to... generally there are none on older Tubes to my knowledge, they were not deemed necessary before the Victoria Line. The only one I know about on an older line is at the end of Elephant & Castle sidings at the end of the Bakerloo Line, I don't know when this was sunk though... My hunch would be when work started on the aborted Camberwell extension. It was always assumed that flat-fronted trains would push sufficient fresh air in / out of Tube tunnels.

It may be a reference to using the numerous abandoned lift shafts at Tube stations that subsequently had escalators installed?
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Old June 28th, 2011, 01:50 AM   #4586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mayflower232 View Post
Just thought I would post this snippet I read in the Telegraph, I was rather shocked that 83 ventilation shafts have been allowed to go out of order in the first place. Ventilation shafts are installed for a reason?! Why not use them.

Also with all this heat the Central Line becomes a no-go. Now we all long ago concluded that the trains cannot be cooled but why not the stations? Surely LU could air condition the station concourses during the summer? Also why could they not drill new shafts along deep level lines and install high speed fans blowing water-cooled air down?
Your quote says 83 fans, not neccesary 83 shafts. (I'm not sure but perhaps more than one fan could be used on a single shaft?)

Installing portable fans seems lika an idea equally good as peeing your pants to get warm. The only two things they will do is move the already hot air around and their motors will also generate (a small quantity of) heat

I'd (still) like to get some more facts from someone who knows a bit of thermo energy storage coeffecients in clay and such things. My idea is to run the ventilation shaft fans on max speed even in freezing winter, accepting a rather cool temperature in the winter and especially in the spring season, to cool down the tunnel/station structures and the surrounding clay.

Maybe this doesn't work with clay, and only works if the tunnels go through rock?
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Old June 30th, 2011, 04:38 AM   #4587
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You mentioned overhead lines have the disadvantage of being able to "jump" quite far, thus being a hazard.

What does that mean? Can someone can get zapped without touching them?
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Old June 30th, 2011, 05:16 AM   #4588
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiaM View Post
Installing portable fans seems lika an idea equally good as peeing your pants to get warm. The only two things they will do is move the already hot air around and their motors will also generate (a small quantity of) heat
And in my experience they are absolutely useless unless you're standing directly in front of them. Which on a typical day is a few milliseconds.
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Old June 30th, 2011, 03:01 PM   #4589
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You mentioned overhead lines have the disadvantage of being able to "jump" quite far, thus being a hazard.

What does that mean? Can someone can get zapped without touching them?
In theory the higher the voltage the larger the air gap that can be bridged between a live conductor and someone or something at ground potential.

You only need to look at the size of the insulators that hold up power lines to see this. At residential supply voltage (~240) they are quite small, and at power station voltages (~250KV+) they can be a good metre long. The reason being the higher the voltage the easier it can jump.

Now is this a hazard? Don't think so.

Now seeing as overhead train wires can be as high as 25KV and 3rd rail ~600V DC you could say there is a greater risk with 25KV. However in reality 25KV would struggle to jump more than a few cm so is not really that much of a hazard, unless you were already that close to them AND were somehow connected to ground at the same time.

On the other hand 3rd rail systems are more dangerous, not by their ability to jump, by buy the ease in which one could easily touch one and also be touching ground, simply because they are located just off the ground.
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Old July 1st, 2011, 03:27 PM   #4590
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Quote:
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You mentioned overhead lines have the disadvantage of being able to "jump" quite far, thus being a hazard.

What does that mean? Can someone can get zapped without touching them?
Yes... The 'safe' distance if I remember my Network Rail rules & regs correctly is a whopping 1.9m... i.e. you or anything you're carrying is not to come any closer than 1.9m to the live portions of OHLE (it's not just the wires the pantograph contacts, quite a few other bits are live too).

Of course the current can't jump anywhere near this far in reality, but that's Health & Safety for you.

You'll notice on any 25Kv AC EMU, loco, or any stock which runs under 25Kv OHLE (so that includes many diesel locos and DMUs too), a thin orange stripe just below roof level... this denotes the line beyond which people or equipment must not encroach when under 25Kv OHLE.
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Old July 4th, 2011, 04:48 PM   #4591
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Tubeman: I saw this on Saturday and thought of you:



There are few things more striking than a 6 foot 5 man in full Marie-Antoinette drag crammed into a tube seat. Especially one giving you the come-on.

Arky
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Old July 4th, 2011, 05:43 PM   #4592
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Other than electrification, are there significant infrastructure issues that prevent the GOBLIN from being linked to the NLL for passenger routes? Would there be much advantage in running a Barking to, say, Willesden Junction service, or would it overly complicate the NLL timetable?
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Old July 4th, 2011, 10:08 PM   #4593
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedArkady View Post
Tubeman: I saw this on Saturday and thought of you:

There are few things more striking than a 6 foot 5 man in full Marie-Antoinette drag crammed into a tube seat. Especially one giving you the come-on.

Arky
LOL, only at weekends
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Old July 4th, 2011, 10:18 PM   #4594
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Originally Posted by RedArkady View Post
Other than electrification, are there significant infrastructure issues that prevent the GOBLIN from being linked to the NLL for passenger routes? Would there be much advantage in running a Barking to, say, Willesden Junction service, or would it overly complicate the NLL timetable?
Yes, I'd like it looked at...

I have a few 'fantasy' blueprints for Overground service patterns, here's one which avoids the need to electrify GOBLIN by linking it to the unelectrified Dudding Hill Loop via the Midland mainline, thence along the similarly unelectrified goods-only South Acton to Kew Bridge line to continue via the Hounslow Loop to Clapham Junction.

The Dudding Hill Loop is relatively useless in its current form, but passes very close to both Neasden and Harlesden stations, so if interchange platforms are built, could become a useful orbital line. The biggest fly in the ointment is getting trains across the Midland mainline 'fast' tracks, and possible congestion through the Belsize tunnel. In addition to the new Harlesden and Neasden interchanges, it would stop at West Hampstead and a re-opened Junction Road (for Tufnell Park), making it a very well connected and hopefully useful orbital line.

I also propose re-opening the Dalston Eastern Curve and the extension of Stratford services up the Lea valley Line and curves either side if South Tottenham to Seven Sisters, again also providing some useful interchanges.

[IMG]http://i54.************/2niof2r.jpg[/IMG]
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Old July 4th, 2011, 10:22 PM   #4595
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Here's a slight variation on that theme, without the 'line 1' running via Kew Bridge (which I suspect might cause some issues between Kew Bridge and Clapham Junction).

[IMG]http://i53.************/2yjoqok.jpg[/IMG]
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Old July 5th, 2011, 12:26 AM   #4596
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Fascinating stuff, thanks. I didn't know about the Dudding Hill Loop.

Reopening Junction Road strikes me as very sensible. Perhaps as the Overground orbital concept settles into the public conciousness campaigns to reopen old stations and create new ones will get off the ground, especially at potential interchanges.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 11:35 AM   #4597
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Some very interesting ideas there Tubeman.

I reckon there's the potential for more stations along that line too, between Harlesden and Neasden and between Neasden and Cricklewood.

If I read your map correctly, have you got the West, North and South London lines linking together to form a full loop starting and finishing at Clapham Junction?

EDIT: It's just occurred to me that separating the lines out the way you have makes it much more like the tube map. Would fully incorporating the London Overground graphically into the tube map be a help or hindrance do you think? In other words, give each of those lines its own colour (if you can find enough shades to avoid confusion!) and its own name?

Last edited by CairnsTony; July 5th, 2011 at 11:40 AM.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 03:12 PM   #4598
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@CairnsTony: I suspect that splitting up the Overground routes on the tube map would be difficult as the routes overlap so much. There might be room for doing so on the ‘Overgound only’ map shown inside the trains though. When they take over the South London Line they will need to completely overhaul the design.

I quite like this idea: http://ccs-pk.chace-school.net/2010/...verground.html - though I recognise that it’s problematic for showing actual routes.

These guys have thrashed out some ideas: http://www.projectmapping.co.uk/Revi...ound_maps.html

@Tubeman: Any word on the prospect of the Bakerloo extension to Watford and the impact on the parallel Overground service?
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Old July 5th, 2011, 03:32 PM   #4599
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Oh, and have they actually started the Surrey Quays extension work yet? News is thin on the ground.
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Old July 5th, 2011, 03:41 PM   #4600
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London Overground

RedArkady - work has begun on the Surrey Quays to Clapham Junction (via South London Line) extension - including the new piece of railway through Bridgehouse Meadows.
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