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Old August 20th, 2011, 06:26 PM   #4661
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What happened to the A stock on the East London Line after its closure? I assume they went to the Met, but what happened to them there?
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Old August 21st, 2011, 10:13 PM   #4662
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What happened to the A stock on the East London Line after its closure? I assume they went to the Met, but what happened to them there?
They were just re-absorbed into the fleet, as the A60's get older, the more units they have available the better.

I'll miss them, but the S8 are such smart, good looking trains that I won't get too sentimental about the A60's passing.
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Old August 21st, 2011, 10:18 PM   #4663
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They were just re-absorbed into the fleet, as the A60's get older, the more units they have available the better.

I'll miss them, but the S8 are such smart, good looking trains that I won't get too sentimental about the A60's passing.
So they're still rolling on the Met along with the other units? That's great.

I sure hope they preserve atleast one A60/62 stock unit.
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Old August 23rd, 2011, 11:46 PM   #4664
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So they're still rolling on the Met along with the other units? That's great.

I sure hope they preserve atleast one A60/62 stock unit.
I'm sure they will, it would be criminal not to

However, I guess at some point in the next couple of decades heritage trips on LU will be no more as more and more lines upgrade... It's fine running A Stock on conventional 'tripcock' railway, but when the SSR upgrade is finished, there'll be no signals left to allow heritage runs.

Maybe the test tracks between Acton Town and Northfields should retain conventional signalling to allow heritage units to work out of the Museum Depot and run up and down?

I also like the idea of the Epping Ongar Railway becoming an LU heritage line... there's so many preserved railways that at least this being an LU-only preserved railway would make it different from the competition.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 05:58 PM   #4665
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However, I guess at some point in the next couple of decades heritage trips on LU will be no more as more and more lines upgrade... It's fine running A Stock on conventional 'tripcock' railway, but when the SSR upgrade is finished, there'll be no signals left to allow heritage runs.
That's sad. But will they remove the signals completly or will they keep them like on the Victoria Line?

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Maybe the test tracks between Acton Town and Northfields should retain conventional signalling to allow heritage units to work out of the Museum Depot and run up and down?

I also like the idea of the Epping Ongar Railway becoming an LU heritage line... there's so many preserved railways that at least this being an LU-only preserved railway would make it different from the competition.
Great ideas. I specifically like the second one, but the EOR has had some problems with vandalism. Their 1959('62?) stock unit got so vandalized it was scrapped. So maybe the first one is the better option.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 08:23 PM   #4666
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That's sad. But will they remove the signals completly or will they keep them like on the Victoria Line?
The trouble is lack of ATP really... Once a line goes non-tripcock (as the Vic, Central, and now Jubilee are) then if the traditional signalling equipment is decommissioned then there's nothing to stop a 'heritage' train running into the back of a non-heritage train. The Vic line signals (and Central) aren't equipped with trainstops and simply indicate the road ahead a platform is clear.

The Jub has even fewer signals (about 3 on the entire line IIRC), concerned purely with moves in / out of Neasden and Stratford depots. The 'signals' are in-cab... the 'TOD' (Train operator display) in front of the driver tells them when they have a 'target point' (i.e. a distance ahead to drive towards, either the next station or the train in front), when driving in 'PM' or Protected Manual, the driver is looking down at the TOD which is continuously giving a target point distance ahead and maximum speed.

A non-TBTC equipped train simply couldn't run on the Jubilee.
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Old August 24th, 2011, 11:45 PM   #4667
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So if i understand correctly, the heritage trains now running won't be able to/aren't able to roll on the Victoria, Central and Jubilee lines, nor will they be able to operate on the Met soon? Correct?
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Old August 25th, 2011, 12:42 AM   #4668
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So if i understand correctly, the heritage trains now running won't be able to/aren't able to roll on the Victoria, Central and Jubilee lines, nor will they be able to operate on the Met soon? Correct?
Yes re: Vic / Cen / Jub, but the Met will still be ok for a few more years... although the S8 Stock are multiplying, they will operate using conventional tripcock / trainstop ATP until the SSR resignalling takes place, which is some years away yet.

Much like the Jubilee has run with 1996 stock since 1999 while only having just recently switched over to TBTC.
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Old August 25th, 2011, 06:18 AM   #4669
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I agree that Epping-Ongar should be a LU museum line.


It's possible to install modern singalling equipment in old trains. Of course it's hard to hide the modern stuff so it at least looks like it's old even though it's not authentic. I believe it's mostly a question about cost. If I remember correctly there were some debate about who's going to pay modifications to the museum/heritage trains when Berlins S-bahn changed train protection system, but that seems to be solved now. (Atleast web pages of berlin S-bahn http://www.s-bahn-berlin.de/pdf/flyer_museumszug.pdf and Historische S-bahn e.v. http://www.hisb.de/fahrzeuge/fahrzeugehistfzg.html doesn't mention any problem running the old trains).
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Old August 25th, 2011, 06:58 PM   #4670
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It's possible to install modern singalling equipment in old trains. Of course it's hard to hide the modern stuff so it at least looks like it's old even though it's not authentic.
Oh yeah, didn't they do that in the museum train in Stockholms subway?

I don't think the cars would be able to run any longer unless they had. Not with all the signal upgrades and everything.
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Old August 26th, 2011, 01:30 AM   #4671
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubeman View Post
Yes re: Vic / Cen / Jub, but the Met will still be ok for a few more years... although the S8 Stock are multiplying, they will operate using conventional tripcock / trainstop ATP until the SSR resignalling takes place, which is some years away yet.

Much like the Jubilee has run with 1996 stock since 1999 while only having just recently switched over to TBTC.
Fortunately Tubeman is mistaken - the SSR signalling contract, recently awarded, includes providing equipment for 6 heritage trains/cabs - its not currently clear which, but the future for the 38TS and Sarah is secure on the Sub-Surface and Picc lines.

Chris
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Old August 26th, 2011, 05:24 PM   #4672
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Fortunately Tubeman is mistaken - the SSR signalling contract, recently awarded, includes providing equipment for 6 heritage trains/cabs - its not currently clear which, but the future for the 38TS and Sarah is secure on the Sub-Surface and Picc lines.

Chris
Oh, great news then!

Bit of foresight for a change
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Old August 31st, 2011, 10:19 PM   #4673
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Siemens Unveils London Underground Concept Train

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A design concept for a next-generation train for London Underground’s small-profile ‘tube’ lines was unveiled by Siemens during the Railtex exhibition.

Building on its successful role in supplying replacement bogies for Central Line and Waterloo & City Line stock, Siemens was asked by LU to develop a ‘concept train’ for the next round of replacement stock which will in due course be needed for the Piccadilly and Bakerloo lines.

When LU last tendered for replacement trains for the Piccadilly Line, Siemens did not submit a bid – and indeed on that occasion the plans did not proceed. Now, however, according to Friedrich Timmer, Project Manager for Rolling Stock in the Mobility Division at Siemens, ‘we believe London Underground is ready for the next generation of trains’.

Comparing the concept train with the Bombardier stock now entering service on the Victoria Line, Siemens said that the future design would offer a 30 tonne weight saving with 11% more capacity. Featuring wide gangways between cars, the trains would be 30% more energy-efficient; even if air-conditioning were fitted, the trains would be 17% more energy-efficient, said Timmer.

Siemens has developed the concept as the basis of a product family adaptable for use on different LU lines. The design includes what Siemens terms an ‘iconic’ front end that it hopes may one day become a London landmark.

Timmer expects prequalification for the next-generation train procurement process to start in 2012.
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Old August 31st, 2011, 10:34 PM   #4674
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]
So that has to be the ugliest train design I've ever seen. It looks like it's going to dig its own tunnel.

For the round front-end, why not go all the way and put the blue bar across the middle, so it looks like the London Underground roundal. You could even put the destination sign in there, or the name of the line or simply "UndergrounD" - make Harry Beck happy.

also, where's the door at the end of the train? how do you detrain from that in a tunnel - last time I checked, there is zero clearance to get out of the side of the train.
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Old September 1st, 2011, 12:34 AM   #4675
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Chill, it's a concept

... far more controversial is the absence of a driver's cab! You can imagine how this render (which is a few months old) has been received by the trade unions...
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Old September 1st, 2011, 11:13 AM   #4676
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It reminds me of the faces of the police from the film THX1138.
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Old September 1st, 2011, 06:53 PM   #4677
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I sure hope that wont become reality.
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Old September 2nd, 2011, 12:14 PM   #4678
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I just thought of something today. As you probably remember i live in Stockholm, but my new school is filled with maps, posters, notes and stuff from London Underground.

We've got an entire map in our classroom(and im studying to become a mechanic). The funny thing about that one is that both the Aldwych and Ongar branches are on it.

And the Jubilee line extension is not drawn on it. Nor is the W&C.

Does anyone know when it's from?
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Last edited by London Underground; September 2nd, 2011 at 05:28 PM.
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 12:44 AM   #4679
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I just thought of something today. As you probably remember i live in Stockholm, but my new school is filled with maps, posters, notes and stuff from London Underground.

We've got an entire map in our classroom(and im studying to become a mechanic). The funny thing about that one is that both the Aldwych and Ongar branches are on it.

And the Jubilee line extension is not drawn on it. Nor is the W&C.

Does anyone know when it's from?
Just that info alone isn't enough... If you could post a pic then I could date it

It's pre-1994 (Aldwych & Ongar), but to my recollection the W&C has been depicted for decades, in fact I think it was only omitted for the first decade or so of Beck's map.

So you say no JLE... so does the Jubilee Line exist and does it terminate at Charing Cross? If yes, then it's post-1979.

What about Heathrow? If it's a simple terminus at Heathrow Central then it's pre-1986, if the T4 loop is there then it's post-1986

In 1987 the DLR appears, in 1990 the H&C gets its own identity (pink)... you should be able to narrow it down using these milestones.

This link is great, depicts a good selection of Tube maps through the ages:

http://privatewww.essex.ac.uk/~mjr/u...landmarks.html
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Old September 3rd, 2011, 12:48 AM   #4680
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Note the W&C line used to be simple black outline as it was British Rail until 1994... although it turned orange, along with the other bits of BR on the map, for a few years before the East London Line got orange as its unique colour when it finally broke away from the Metropolitan Line fully
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